The work women do

[MoonriseKingdom]

english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/

Apologies if this has been posted before. I saw this on Facebook this morning and it sums up everything I struggle to articulate to my DH. He really does want to be helpful/ do his fair share and I love him but it is the taking of overall responsibility for the thinking in our house that I find exhausting.

Great thread. I have bookmarked the link to read tomorrow.
OP, in your first paragraph you summed up how I feel. "....it is the taking of overall responsibility for the thinking in our house that I find exhausting."

DH is great, even by my standards, not all the "He acknowledged paternity and changes nappies, what a hero" buggers. But I am so tired of thinking, and organising and planning.

I'm divorced twice and have a female lodger now for a bit of extra cash. She's so much easier to live with and just does things without being told.
I cannot recall the last time I went to the loo in the dark and sat on pissy porcelain or had to pick somebodys pants up or deal with their floordrobe.
I get home to find the loo roll restocked and new dishwasher tabs in the cuboard.
I sometimes wish I'd been born a lesbian.

What I find interesting about this is is the fact that the cartoon seems to recognise the socialisation that has helped create the mental load but everyone seems to think that men can just change a lifetime of socialisation. If, as the cartoon suggests, women have been trained into this role, why do we think that men should not also need trained?

Its not a list of tasks or even a list of tasks done properly. Its a mind set and an acceptance that what one person does or prefers is not the same as another persons.

Yep Identify with this and agree all this does crowd your mind.
It's depressing, that it's like this for so many of us.

It's depressing, that it's like this for so many of us.

Yes, and that women have been trying to get men to do their share for so many years now, and still so little change to show for it. I remember my Mum saying exactly the same things as in the cartoon about thirty years ago.

That's why I'm opting out. I'll never live with a man again.

I'm divorced twice and have a female lodger now for a bit of extra cash. She's so much easier to live with and just does things without being told.

I've had a nanny a couple of times - and having another woman around the house is a revelation - sides get wiped, stuff gets picked up and put back as they wander around etc. - all while looking after the kids too. It's not the big stuff, it really is the little stuff that makes a huge difference.

The cleanest, tidiest, most organised family I know consists of 2 men..
Yes they are gay, but still all men. And have no women there telling them to put laundry on. And take laundry out. And hang it out. And put it away. And where to put it..etc

^The cleanest, tidiest, most organised family I know consists of 2 men..
Yes they are gay, but still all men. And have no women there telling them to put laundry on. And take laundry out. And hang it out. And put it away. And where to put it..etc^

That's interesting (albeit just one example) - I wonder how that came about - if it's an equality of expectation that means they've both pulled together in a way that a M/F couple generally doesn't due to the baggage of traditional expectations and biological necessity (ie. maternity leave)

This thread has just reminded me of the film 'Kramer vs Kramer'. It is about a woman (Meryl Streep) who has had enough of this stuff and a man (Dustin Hoffman) who suddenly becomes a single parent and has his eyes opened as a result.

The cleanest, tidiest, most organised family I know consists of 2 men..
Yes they are gay, but still all men. And have no women there telling them to put laundry on. And take laundry out. And hang it out. And put it away. And where to put it..etc

Since separating from my Mum, my Dad lives in the most beautifully clean and well-organised house. Men are perfectly capable of managing these things, but see no reason to as long as they have a wife to do it for them. Remember the old expression, 'Why keep a dog and bark?'

The things that give me the rage are when I have organised something for the offspring, and DH will 'review' it, criticise it and suggest that the provider of whatever activity is somehow not up to scratch.

Nursery: 'Good god that's expensive. Can't you just get a babysitter? It can't be that hard to look after a bunch of three-year-olds.'
Schools: 'Why aren't they teaching them fractions/trigonometry/special relativity yet? I'm sure I'd done it before I was 10'
Dentists: 'Shouldn't think they really need braces. It'll just be a money-spinner.'
Music/swimming/karate lessons: 'It doesn't sound very organised. He'll never progress if they don't start with scales/50 lengths/press-ups every lesson.'

He has never, in nearly 20 years, felt strongly enough about it to preempt me and organise a school place, music lesson, health appointment or even haircut for a child. I point this out. Frequently.

(And I might have cheered, silently, inwardly, when DS got a better result for Grade 8 music than his father did all those years back.)

To be fair, if it was left to me, they'd still have 10-year-old mobiles and one dodgy laptop between the lot of them.

'We' homeschooled. Except he worked 50+ hours a week and did zero research, collated not a single experience and spent very few days solo with any number of children, while I managed all 4 independent of whether he was even in town every night.
'We' chose to send children to school. And then a child to a Steiner kinder. Except his contribution was to attend a couple of evening and early morning events. And sometimes to drop off on his way to the office.
'We' moved our children to a different school after 'we' noticed how badly our children were being served. He did not attend a single meeting with new school, didn't walk through it until after the children had been attending a couple of months. He never met the psychologist who 'we' arranged to help our threatening to self harm at the time 7 yr old.
He did not attend a single session with any professional when 'we' went through the process of having DD diagnosed as autistic.

He believes he does more than his share. Definitely more than any other man he knows. He actually does do a good percentage of the housework right now. BUT he completes 75% of a few tasks and 100% of none.

I've been unwell for months now. I still need to explicitly list the clothing items needed for children. I still have to remind over and over that there are some tasks (lawn mowing, vacuuming etc) that are beyond me right now but still need to be done. He may do part of those tasks. But then he's a hero and needs applause. And he nags at the children to help him instead of just doing it.

He's away for work 3 nights a week atm. It's actually easier those nights.

(Yes, I am bitter. Yes, our marriage is in a rocky place right now).

That's rough, Emerence.

To be fair(er) to DH, he came to a good half of our autism assessment meetings (guess who went to all of them though).

He also went alone to the meeting I'd arranged with a new school when we were thinking of moving DS. Admittedly that's because I was in hospital, but hey, at least he went.

I wonder if some men tell themselves that women just love all the organising and nurturing so they're actually being considerate by letting us get on with the things we just love doing undisturbed...

On a trip to MiL's recently I suggested dp might want to make his mum a cup of tea for once rather than the other way round and he said 'she loves doing things for other people'.

Regardless of whether that's true or not is still a twatty way to justify laziness. And I thought 'that's why he thinks I do all the endless, tedious crap I do'.

DH actually says he likes looking after people, and expresses surprise that I don't want to 'think of nice things to do for him, like maybe mending his bike'.

This also gives me the rage, as it's totally ignoring the boringly unnoticeable things I do just to try to keep the mess at bay and everyone roughly where they should be.

I think you could be right about that, hive. I remember years ago, when I was an undergraduate, I was wiping down a table top after a shared meal. The men had helped out with the washing up, but gone into the other room to put their feet up and drink, apparently not seeing the food congealed on various surfaces. One of them wandered through and asked, 'Do you like doing that?' Fiesty 20 year-old me tore a strip off him, much to his shock and bafflement. It had been a genuine enquiry!!

Ah yes, the "but she seems not to mind / like doing it / is so much better at it than me" line. A close cousin of "I would only do it wrong!"

Yes, single men generally manage to dress themselves, feed themselves, figure out what to do when fridge is on the empty side etc.
But find a wife and they suddenly become unable to locate socks or figure out if there's any milk.

When I was 16 and had just left school, I was at home one day while my mum was at work. (It has only just occurred to me that my mum worked. I have always remembered her as a SAHM because she was always home when my four siblings and I were at home, but she, in fact, worked as a cleaner either before we got out of bed or while we were at school. My dad always called it her 'little job')

Anyway, I was home and she got in. I said to her as she walked through the door that I had hoovered the stairs for her. She went fucking mental about they weren't her fucking stairs and I didn't do anything for her. We had a huge row and I remember muttering calling her an ungrateful bitch.

I am now a SAHM to 5 children. I home ed 3 of them. I now understand why she lost it that day.

DH will tell me he's loaded the dishwasher for me. Or got the kids dressed for me. Or put the rubbish out for me. When we are expecting guests he'll ask me what I want him to do. He asked me the other day if I had thought of what we need to buy for our upcoming holiday and I screamed at him, 'HAVE YOU? HAVE YOU FUCKING THOUGHT OF WHAT WE NEED? DO YOU EVER THINK OF WHAT WE NEED?'

He works 6 days a week and I appreciate that, but it is exhausting managing everyone.

Remembering birthdays. Appointments. When the beds were last changed. What size shoes the kids wear. When did we last see the dentist. When are their eye tests due? What exams are when. When 6th form open evenings are. When did I last nit comb? The list obviously goes on and on.

I get that 5 kids are going to involve a lot of work. I don't even mind him not 'helping'. What I can't stand is DH asking what's for dinner. When the next bank holiday is. When he last went to the dentist. What he needs to pack for holiday. What his pin number is. What his internet banking password is. When his mum's birthday is. What door number his nan lives at.

Why the fuck would I know! He then looks at me like I'm mad and says that he was only asking because I'm the one who is good at remembering.

Yes, single men generally manage to dress themselves, feed themselves, figure out what to do when fridge is on the empty side

This is the only reason I do give DP some leeway in my mind - he's almost certainly dyspraxic (undiagnosed, but DS1 is on the path to diagnosis, and DS1 is a mini duplicate of DP) - there are some things he genuinely finds hard, like driving and parking (or anything involving words, short term memory/organisation and fine motor control).

When he lived alone, he didn't manage a lot of these things - I remember him coming into work in pyjama bottoms the week his cleaning lady was on holiday, and proudly presenting a group of us with a selection of deli meat from his fridge when we went round for a party - just meat, no bread, no plates, no forks because he'd completely forgotten what else might be needed. He's locked himself in the bathroom 3 times during our relationship, and called me in a panic from the garage because he couldn't figure out how to get the car out.

Still, he's a nearly 40 year old man, and he really needs to have worked on some coping strategies by now.

Girly - Dp thinks I'm 'OCD' for tidying up. So last night I left the pile of washing up (that he'd left for me yesterday morning) for him to do. Guess I'm not that 'OCD' after all

Having looked at the comments on the link, a lot of men complain that when they "try to help" [murderous rage building] they get told they're doing it wrong.

The problem is surely there's a big variation in what that can mean so you could have any one of the following:
Man A cooks his child lasagne which used to be their favourite food, but recently their child has gone off it so doesn't want to eat it.
Man B cooks his child tuna pasta bake because it was his favourite food as a kid. His child hates fish and always has.
Man C forgets that his child needs feeding and eventually gives them a packet of crisps and a chocolate bar for dinner.
Man D cooks his child something the child loves which is a nutritious, balanced meal. His wife complains that she was going to make it in two days time.

I'm sure lots of the men commenting think they're Man D but somehow I doubt it...

A lot of these comments sound like my life Emerence and happy particularly.

My DP does fuck all thinking and less than fuck all doing about anything household/child related.

I have always sorted, (and sodding paid for, but that's another thread) the DC uniforms, most of their clothes, after-school clubs, extra-curricular activities, childcare, holiday cover, birthday parties and gifts, xmas presents, gifts for their friends, bus fares, dinner money etc.

When we go on holiday, I research, book, pay for (I do get paid back half eventually but it's in dribs and drabs), the flights, accommodation and transfers, sort the passports, do all of the shopping, washing, ironing and packing of cases (his contribution is to wait until we're at the airport to ask "have we packed x, y or z?" No we fucking haven't, but I have, like always).

I also deal with all of the household bills, meal planning, shopping and cooking. I can recall only 1 or 2 times in the last 13 years that he has dealt with any laundry and he can't iron. If anything needs doing to the house, I have to get someone in to deal with it.
I was recently made redundant but when I was working he would drop the DC at school in the mornings, and said I was lucky because "there are hardly any Dads who do that."

When they were ill, it was me that took time off work, same for parents' evenings, school plays, senior school visits to decide which school for DD (she's in Y7 and he's only vaguely aware of where her school is, but had plenty to say about the way I had completed the application when we didn't get our first choice).

I could go on, but I don't want to raise my blood-pressure any further. And before you say I should speak to him about it, I have, many times. He rolls his eyes and says "Oh here we go again - I physically can't do any more than I do." There's nothing wrong with him physically, he equates being out of the house for longer than me as doing more work, so when he gets in, he likes to relax. Whereas I obviously prefer to make dinner, sort homework (that's just reminded me of another thing he's not once helped with), fold laundry and generally behave like the hired help. But he does wash the pots and hoover downstairs on a Sunday, so I guess that's even. Fuckwit.
(Glad I got that off my chest)

Yes, my load is lighter when my husband is travelling for work. Turns out it's not the kids who are making the mess!

I wish all the men in the UK would read this thread. It would be an eye opener for them.