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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The work women do

130 replies

MoonriseKingdom · 21/05/2017 10:09

english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/

Apologies if this has been posted before. I saw this on Facebook this morning and it sums up everything I struggle to articulate to my DH. He really does want to be helpful/ do his fair share and I love him but it is the taking of overall responsibility for the thinking in our house that I find exhausting.

OP posts:
PacificDogwod · 21/05/2017 16:11

Sylvia Thanks

I have never thought about it from an abuse/control point of view.
Angry

Collidascope · 21/05/2017 16:28

Seems as if sometimes even when men do their fair share of housework they're still seeing it as the preserve of women, suggesting it was done "for you" so he did it so you didn't have to

Very much so. I often fall into the trap of thinking it's my job myself. He does something around the house and I instinctively thank him and he'll expect praise and will tell me all about how he did it. When I do something, he doesn't thank me and I don't feel the need to hold a half hour debrief on how I did it.

NoLoveofMine · 21/05/2017 16:34

He does something around the house and I instinctively thank him and he'll expect praise and will tell me all about how he did it.

This seems to happen so much with housework, looking after children and the like. Men praised for doing any or seen as fantastic for "helping out" with their own children, doing a bit of tidying of their own home etc. A woman does it and it's just her doing what's expected, doing her job, no praise warranted and it passes without comment. Then as this setup is what so many people fall into, that's the message sent to children, who then are likely to perpetuate it in future.

Blazedandconfused · 21/05/2017 17:16

When my DH was a child, he had a list of chores to do before he was allowed to watch cartoons on a Saturday.

He had younger siblings so fed them, changed nappies etc. He joined something like scouts, where he learned to cook.

He lived in what we would probably call poverty. If he wanted something, he would earn money- e.g. Grow veg and sell it.

As a husband, a father, he absolutely broke the mould. He does all the housework, loves doing laundry- he hates folding and putting away, fair play, I do that.

He was up with the newborns doing the night time nappy changes. As soon as I stopped breastfeeding he took over the night shifts completely.

We have two tiny sons, who help him load the washing machine, help him sweep, clear weeds, vacuum etc.

I'm lucky. I know that. But we are determined that our sons will see the world the way DH and I do. That house work, paid jobs, childcare, is a team effort.

I don't know what the answer is to the bigger problem though. Yes, little boys will see their dads not pulling their weight- but they need to be included in all the chores, so they see it as normal and will be the generation who puts an end to this.

Eolian · 21/05/2017 17:28

It's all absolutely true. However, my answer to this has been to continue to work very part time even once my dc were at school. Dh has a very stressful job. If I went back to work full time and we were to share the housework, home admin and mental load, we would all be stressed and miserable. He's more ambitious than me and I have no desire to go back to work full time, so the mental load is mine, voluntarily. Even though I do still find it a bit irritating that much of it is indeed invisible to him, I'd rather do what I do than what he does, by miles.

NoLoveofMine · 21/05/2017 17:59

but they need to be included in all the chores, so they see it as normal and will be the generation who puts an end to this.

Very much so. The number of boys my age I've seen and heard making comments varying from the predictably dull "get back in the kitchen"/"women are for cooking, cleaning" etc to genuinely believing women are "more suited" to housework (yet complaining the presentation of men in advertising for domestic products is sexist) is pretty worrying, so it's encouraging to hear of families such as yours.

Collidascope · 21/05/2017 18:09

Men praised for doing any or seen as fantastic for "helping out" with their own children, doing a bit of tidying of their own home etc.

I can't help thinking this is an attempt to manipulate (nicely) men into helping, but it ends up backfiring massively. I'm sure I used to thank my partner and praise him for the same reason I used to praise kids when I was a teacher - to reward good behaviour so they keep doing it. Of course, that then creates the problem that he believes that he is being really great by helping out as opposed to just behaving like a normal human being pulling his weight, and therefore thinks it would be very unreasonable to expect him to be a great guy (i.e. doing his share) all the time.

starsinyourpies · 21/05/2017 18:56

DH is usually pretty good at doing stuff but this has really made me realise the number of 'invisible tasks' there still are that I just do. Also the amount of help he needs sometimes astounds me. I ask him to sterilise bottles, he asks if they have been washed up. I suggest he goes to look and perhaps he could run to washing up as well if needed Hmm.

starsinyourpies · 21/05/2017 18:58

One tactic I now employ when he asks if he can do something 'to help' is ask him what he thinks might need doing. He can usually come up with something appropriate, so why ask in the first place, JFDI!

paulapantsdown · 21/05/2017 19:19

I think me and DH are pretty equal on the housework stuff, as his standards are higher than mine and he loves housework. I cant be bothered with any outside garden stuff, but he doesn't do the bathroom so it evens out.

It's the family admin that I seem to have the brunt off. The size shoes the kids take, the remembering when the parents evening is.

We are going on holiday next week. I booked the flights, hotel and car hire. I organised the car parking at the airport, the travel insurance and the online job to arrive when we get back. I have shopped for the toiletries and new pants and toothbrushes etc.

When we arrive on holiday I will not
lift a further finger. I will not go the bar, carry a bag, go to the shop for supplies or hail a taxi. I will look like a right lazy cow!

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 21/05/2017 19:21

Rufus NoLove i still remember when DH said he'd taken the bin out 'for me' when I was pregnant (and not supposed to be doing much lifting). Yes, I'm a sahm but I don't generate all the rubbish by myself!

OlennasWimple · 21/05/2017 21:28

This cartoon is exactly what I need to illustrate the point I've been trying to make to DH, thank you

And yes, doing things "for you" - grrrrrr!!! Angry

AltheaThoon · 21/05/2017 21:34

My dh is okay, he does some stuff around the house.

However, this article rings true with me. He constantly asks things 'So what time to they finish school today?', 'where's dd's dancing?', 'what are we doing this weekend?' And i usually have to answer the questions more than once. He just doesn't seem to 'know' about the day-to-day stuff that goes on in their lives. I don't know if they'd get to parties if I weren't here (and of they did get there i don't think there would be a present or card!)

Just recently i was ill and i was so grateful that he took the day off to care for our baby because i just couldn't face parenting or school runs that day. So i stayed in bed, it was great. But, when i got up mid-afternoon, the kitchen was a state with breakfast stuff still out - buttery knives and jars with lids off. The dishwasher was full and clean with dishes piling up in the sink. No wash had been put on a d it was a beautiful day. 'I've been looking after ds' he said, but all this stuff has to get done whilst looking after the baby. Who would do it if i didn't do it ?

I agree with the author of this article - he just doesn't 'see' things that need doing.

AlwaysCcakeTime · 22/05/2017 10:48

FOR YOU

If I ever commit violence or even murder, the words for you will be involved in my defence.

Yesterday we had our DNephews over for dinner, lovely boys but both have hollow legs....

DP invited them at 22:30 Saturday, he then got up at silly o clock Sunday to go do his hobby. Knowing we had fuck all food in the house. (I could have not done it, but both boys are having a bit of a shit time ATM and they would have been the ones who suffered)

So I got up early on Sunday to go shopping, then cooked vasts amounts.

I'm having a shit time at work and did have rather too much to drink.

I was informed this am that he had loaded the dishwasher for me, even though I'm working from home today.

This consisted of him unloading the washer (which is in the utility room) and placed all the washed stuff on the side, and only loading the easy washed stuff ie: plates, all the pots etc are still sat in the sink with his cereal bowl from this morning.

And he's wondering why I hung up on him............

Arsehole.............

Walkingtowork · 22/05/2017 12:55

I can only dream how it must feel to have all that extra mental space...

Carolinethebrave · 22/05/2017 13:02

This cartoon seems appropriate.

The work women do
Carolinethebrave · 22/05/2017 13:04

It drives me insane. If I ever leave my dh this will be why. at the weekend I asked "are you having a NICE TIME?" with gritted teeth as he was on the xbox and I had given children breakfast, confirmed dd's social arrangements, paid the cleaner, put FIVE fucking loads of washing on and dried the bastards and tidied the kitchen.

Emerencealwayshopeful · 22/05/2017 13:40

I think the comment that resonated most was about having to list all the minor steps in each task. My DH is convinced he does a greater share of the housework/childcare than other men he knows, which may be true but it doesn't negate the fact that he does about 75% of 3 tasks rather than 100% of a single task.
And the inability to remember who needs sports uniform in which days (look at the f-ing chalkboard that details all the important weekly info) and even once I have yet again told him that for Tuesday they need sports kit I still need to spell out exactly what that consists of.
He works interstate (we're Aussie) 3 days a week right now. Somehow the single 6pm pick up that he's supposed to do is magically my responsibly to organise. If I go away I write a detailed time table with instructions, meal plans, organise 2-3 people to cover drop offs and pick ups and music practice etc etc. he prepares the family for his going away by telling me that he'll be away tomorrow until whenever. That's it.

theshitcollector · 22/05/2017 13:56

I can only dream how it must feel to have all that extra mental space...

Totally agree. DH and I have each WOH and been SAHP over the years. When he was SAHP I took part of the responsibility for remembering what needed to be done, where the DC needed to be, remembering presents for friends, deciding what to buy/eat etc. If I was at home and spotted something that needed to be done, I would just do it and not feel the need to mention it (since it's my household too). Using the terminology of the article, it was as though I was at least partly responsible for managing the household.

When I am SAHP I'm pretty sure DH has no idea what the rest of the family is up to. He will do housework if asked. If he happens to do something without being asked he makes sure I know about it and expects praise (with a slight implication that I should have noticed and done something about it first).

TheChineseChicken · 22/05/2017 14:03

This is starting to cause me to panic before I return to work after ML. My DH is actually very good at doing stuff without being asked BUT I don't feel that this lightens the load on my brain because it's ad hoc and reactionary rather than proactive. I am still constantly thinking about what needs to be done and when, but DH doesn't - he will simply see things that need to be done as and when and do them. Once I am back at work the household jobs won't disappear but how will I have the brain space and time to get it all done?!?!

Also I am annoyed that I have had to say that DH is 'good at getting things done'. Why do men need a pat on the back? No one says I am good for doing the washing or cooking! Angry

TheChineseChicken · 22/05/2017 14:06

I have suggested to DH that we put up a daily job list to make sure everything is done without my prompting. But I know that the contents of this will have to come from me and that I will be the one who knows what needs to be done and how often.

I'm actually relieved that this thread articulates exactly what I have been feeling.

theshitcollector · 22/05/2017 14:20

ChineseChicken- it's frustrating isn't it. We feel like even if we want to change this and relieve ourselves of some of the daily responsibility we still end up taking responsibility for making sure the new way works.

TheChineseChicken · 22/05/2017 14:22

That's totally it in a nutshell!!

Collidascope · 22/05/2017 14:43

put up a daily job list to make sure everything is done without my prompting. But I know that the contents of this will have to come from me and that I will be the one who knows what needs to be done and how often.

I did this. I drew up a chart with every room in the house listed on it, and every individual job that needed doing in that room because I was sick of him doing half a job once I'd managed to nag him into doing something. It didn't help though, sadly.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 22/05/2017 14:52

That's why I could never live with one.

Having said that, I think it is a manifestation of a bigger issue. This is that men think that women exist to be their

  • domestic slaves
  • sexual slaves
  • emotional counsellors
  • donkeys,
etc.

I seriously don't see any difference between men expecting women to do the domestic work and men expecting us to suck their proverbial dicks, soothe their egos and do their shit work on any level. The bigger issue is that men think that women are functional objects who exist to serve them in some Darwinist fantasy in which they, as the being with the penis, are at the top of the tree.