Okay men, strip clubs & stay dos

[Motherknowsbest84]

Okay not sure this is the right place to write this.. But something has really griped me lately..

Why do men use stag dos & boys being boys as an excuse to go to a strip club or have a lap dance.

If under any other circumstances having a naked woman rubbing up against you and getting off on it is cheating. Why would being on your stag do be any different?

People don't seem to understand my morals on this!

In this scenario he isn't imagining the feelings of the daughter or sister, he is imagining how slighted or dishonoured would feel if one of 'his' women were to be demeaned in this way

Indeed. The insult is to him, not his daughter/sister. It's how he'd feel, not how she'd feel and therefore how another woman felt when it happened to her.

Of course they should. But they don't.

Thanks for being so patronising. I know they don't. Doesn't mean I can't say what I think about it.

Datun

Because women can also sexualise the opposite sex. I believe women are sexually repressed and laughed at if we're vocal about our sexual desires.

That's why we have strop clubs aimed at men. A strip club full of male strippers would be seen as a joke.

Oh gosh yes peaceout, you are right, its how it would affect him. Scratched BMW perfect analogy. Didn't think of that.

The standard 'how would you feel if it was your sister' misses the point, people often don't seem to realise this

We are a dimorphic species that reproduces sexually, of course we sexualize each other, but the question is about the power differential between the sexes. When a woman sexualizes a man she's not doing it with a sense of entitlement, with a sinister side order of malice if that entitlement is not met.

So broadly speaking when we men get sexualized it's flattering and life affirming of our own masculinity. There is almost never a cost to us when it happens, in short we can say no.

When we are sexualized it usually happens on two fronts it's either because we have a physique that represents strength and stamina. Of which being sexually appealing is a secondary characteristics. Or it is how we use our language, humor and wit. Again something that to which sexual attraction is a secondary benefit.

When we sexualize women we make those primary and erase everything else about their essential humanity, so it's not comparing like with like. It is also popular to fetishise character traits relating to passivity and submission.

Sexuality for men is additive whereas for women it's reductive. Again not in each and every instance, but it's clear we begin from different starting points.

We are a dimorphic species that reproduces sexually, of course we sexualize each other, but the question is about the power differential between the sexes. When a woman sexualizes a man she's not doing it with a sense of entitlement, with a sinister side order of malice if that entitlement is not met.

So broadly speaking when we men get sexualized it's flattering and life affirming of our own masculinity. There is almost never a cost to us when it happens, in short we can say no.

When we are sexualized it usually happens on two fronts it's either because we have a physique that represents strength and stamina. Of which being sexually appealing is a secondary characteristics. Or it is how we use our language, humor and wit. Again something that to which sexual attraction is a secondary benefit.

When we sexualize women we make those primary and erase everything else about their essential humanity, so it's not comparing like with like. It is also popular to fetishise character traits relating to passivity and submission.

Sexuality for men is additive whereas for women it's reductive. Again not in each and every instance, but it's clear we begin from different starting points.

Sorry didn't mean to double post that.

Women are also sexualised in every way and at every age. Schoolgirl, MILF, every kind of outfit has at some point or another been commented on sexually, mainstream pornography depicting women of all kinds being sexualised, strip clubs having theme nights. Not sure this is exactly relevant but I suppose I mean that nearly everything a woman does or any role can be/has been sexualised by some.

I would add that the prevalence of male sexual violence and widespread victimisation of women, means that a woman can feel threatened, fearing rape on some level and even be triggered by a naked man, even if to some he looks demeaned and silly in nothing but a small apron - in a way there is no equivalent reverse sexed situation.

When a woman sexualizes a man she's not doing it with a sense of entitlement, with a sinister side order of malice if that entitlement is not met.

I think this is a good point. Someone mentioned the diet coke advert above, and if I remember rightly, it's usually some hunky man getting on with his life -mowing grass or whatever - and the women are admiring him as he does this. They're not seeing it as a performance put on for them.

With a strip club or lap dance, the women are there performing for the men, who seem to find this a power trip -that these women are here, dancing for them.

I personally think that a man dancing or stripping or even doing 'manly' things like wrestling a lion specifically to titillate me (especially being paid to do it) would be up there on my list of most horrifying, awkward experiences ever. I can't describe how cringe-inducing I'd find it and I wonder if that's down to me not feeling entitled to expect men to do that for me, or finding the idea of someone being paid to turn me on awful, or what. Or perhaps I'd rather just watch someone being a human being in their own right rather than pretending to be some live sex toy created solely to pleasure them. It almost feels to me like some men have to split off the woman's personality and background to pornify her and get turned on.
Sorry, bit of a ramble.

NoLove I agree with you.

I don't for one minute think the women's behaviour is as serious as the proliferation of strip clubs etc and the way that women are 'used'.

walkinganhouraday quite, just not comparable at all.

A strip club full of male strippers would be seen as a joke.

Maybe its just me. But when I see a strapping bloke, I don't actually get aroused. I might admire him, but it's not sexual arousal. And I'm pretty sure it's not because I'm repressed.

I'm not saying women don't. But I don't. But it would seem that there would be far more male strip clubs if it really did turn women on.

Derval makes a good point about language, humour and wit being attractive. It's certainly engages me, and makes me want to explore further but in terms of sexual arousal, again, no.

For me, it starts with physical contact. Then there is everything to play for. As it can go either way, irrespective of what he looks like.

I have to agree.. It doesn't arouse me ijnthe slightest. Its not something in would even really want to do for fun.

I find it hard to believe men are sexually aroused at every woman they walk past. How do they cope with everyday life.

I don't think you need to be sexually aroused to find someone sexually attractive.

I don't get what arousal has to do with my post.

Because women can also sexualise the opposite sex. I believe women are sexually repressed and laughed at if we're vocal about our sexual desires.

Oh sorry likeababyelephant. I think I mis-interpreted the above.

I do think a lot of men see everything through a filter of sex.

I can't remember which lads magazine I read but it said something along the lines - believe it girls, it doesn't matter what you look like, you can be a granny in the supermarket, but we will always wonder, for a split second, what you look like naked.

I had no trouble believing it.

I don't really agree that this 'imagine if your sister/mum was a stripper argument' is some kind of genius way of proving men who like strippers are wrong.

Surely they are just disgusted at the thought of their sister/daughter stripping? I wouldn't want to imagine my daughter or sister having sex, but that doesn't mean it's wrong as such.

I also wouldn't want my daughter to be a binman, toilet attendant or solider, but that doesn't mean those professions are wrong.

You just compared the serial physical violations and health impairments of prostitution to the trash-hauling of binmen, the piss and shit cleaning of toilet attendants, and the disposable cannon-fodder lives of soliders.

Have you ever had sex? Would you say the experience was much like cleaning a toilet or carrying bags of garbage?

Please put more thought into why - precisely - you think prostituted women and children are accurately compared to war combatants before deeming it not wrong.