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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dove transgender ad #realmoms are men!

182 replies

Usui101 · 14/04/2017 18:32

Start the rant:

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Floggingmolly · 14/04/2017 23:25

I'm not clicking on that link. Is it two supposed women with a baby, only one of them is actually a male who chooses to call himself a woman - so naturally he's now more of a real "mother" than the actual mother herself?
I hope Dove's profits go down the plug hole alongside their fecking soap for pedalling that shite.

TinselTwins · 14/04/2017 23:26

as usual, transinclusive really means MTT elbowing women out of shot!

Thisisouting · 14/04/2017 23:30

I was thinking the same about using a lesbian couple too or there are lots of single parent men out there acting as both mum and dad if you want to feature a man why not feature them?

It's insulting to the poor mother that carried and gave birth to that child to then be relegated to the background

Boycotting dove in this house!

TinselTwins · 14/04/2017 23:31

nope.

see the difference? the gay couple slots aren't replaced by transmen are they?

TinselTwins · 14/04/2017 23:33

"real men are women" doesn't seem to be a selling point for "inclusive" skinny shaming with their previous real curves bollocks Dove funnily enough..

HmmOkay · 14/04/2017 23:34

"The ad doesn't focus on or prioritise trans over biologically female mothers".

But it absolutely certainly does. In the scene where the woman has a transgender partner, the focus is all on the person who provided the sperm in order to create the child. That person talks exclusively about what it is to be a real mom.

The actual biological mother of this child sits there silently - not a word said. Because presumably she doesn't know what it is to be a real mom. Her experience and her thoughts are irrelevant and worthless. Why is she being denied a voice while per partner is given a voice?

Lessthanaballpark · 14/04/2017 23:36

All those ads are a load of twee nothing-like-real-life bollocks.

What mum gets a chance to scuttle up cliff faces when she's got a baby?

I'd be more likely to vote Tory than buy any of their patronising crap.

Floggingmolly · 14/04/2017 23:37

Providing sperm to create your child is certainly not my definition of what makes a real mum?? Sweet Jesus!
I think Dove have quite spectacularly missed the mark here and I hope it hits them where it hurts.

BeyondUser24601 · 15/04/2017 00:01

The body acceptance/inclusivity is a good point. Don't dove encourage that everyone is supposed to be happy as they are?

tallwivglasses · 15/04/2017 01:21

I'm wondering if people would be as annoyed if the 'birth-mom' in the ad had made some contribution ?

DJBaggySmalls · 15/04/2017 01:57

Yes I would be. Transing is totally binary and the opposite of body acceptance, it makes a mockery of the entire concept.
Plus did the women know she was marrying a trans person? Or did they announce it and trans after marriage? Because women can be too afraid to complain for fear of being labelled bigots.

WhereYouLeftIt · 15/04/2017 02:21

"I'm wondering if people would be as annoyed if the 'birth-mom' in the ad had made some contribution?"
Personally - no I wouldn't be as annoyed. If they has seemed to be 'two co-moms'. Since it was only the MtT who spoke, it gave the impression of the female's role as mother being totally usurped. Like she was a walking, non-talking incubator.

And yes, why was there not a lesbian couple co-mothering? There must be far more lesbian couples bringing up their children. Don't Dove want to connect with them?

TinyRick · 15/04/2017 05:33

I'm disappointed that Roller Derby is now allowing men compete with the women

CaoNiMartacus · 15/04/2017 07:43

A man becoming "mother", negating the actual mother, co-opting the female power of creation and birth - at a psychoanalytical level, I think that's the crux of everything that's happening here. Rather frighteningly dystopian.

BeyondUser24601 · 15/04/2017 08:31

I already said I'd be less bothered if they both spoke.

It'd still be gaslighting nonsense, but at least it wouldn't look like "real mom" and their own personal womb-on-legs

fruitlovingmonkey · 15/04/2017 08:43

You NEVER see a FTT person flogging Lynx deodorant or any other product whatsoever on TV, or opining on what it is to be a "real dad" in the media, or presenting Top Gear, or taking up a place in a male refuge, or winning Man of the Year. It is always women that are displaced, never men.

Exactly, HmmOkay

My first problem with this is statistical. How many trans people are parents of newborns? I've never heard of any, but I do know lesbian mums and adoptive mums. Why aren't they featured? By giving this MTT a platform, they are pushing out real mothers to instead show a very unlikely scenario.
The way the MTT talks loudly about being a mom while the actual mother sits quietly is fucking creepy. Presumably she had to put up and shut up with labour, PP bleeding, hormones, etc while her partner wanked on about how great it is to be a mother.

Just another reason not to buy their shit shower gel. I've still not got over them coming on MN and referring to racial characteristics as imperfections anyway.

HmmOkay · 15/04/2017 08:59

I would not really have a problem with both parents speaking if they were talking about what it is to be a real parent. And they were talking about the importance of nursery furniture or something. Even then I'd want a FTT person represented in the interests of equality.

But this was all about real moms. And the transgender parent in that relationship was the only one talking about what it meant. I wonder how many FTT would feature in a similar ad about real dads and talk about it while the father sits there mute? We all know the answer - none.

I don't like the term "birth mother" to refer to a mother while the biological father bags the "real mom" term. Talk about women being erased and silenced and relegated.

We wouldn't have any of these issues if we simply referred to people as what they actually are.

CharlieSierra · 15/04/2017 09:20

A man becoming "mother", negating the actual mother, co-opting the female power of creation and birth - at a psychoanalytical level, I think that's the crux of everything that's happening here. Rather frighteningly dystopian

Absolutely this. It's terrifying how quickly and silently this has come about.

GuardianLions · 15/04/2017 09:39

Anyone out there think that the deranged and obsessive AGPs out there are so finely attuned to the word 'real' and its suggestion of erm reality when related to the word 'women' that the Dove campaign about #RealWomen got right up their noses and caused them to hound Dove into submission? The reason you don't get Ftts erasing men gay or straight, in things like this, is because Ftts aren't the male-entiled deranged, perverted, obsessives that TRA AGPs are, hounding every organisation and campaign to feature them.
I can imagine the Dove #RealWomen campaign was incorporated into some AGP narcissistic sex fantasies of being 'all us girls together, different shapes and sizes - ooh' wank, wank, strum, strum...
And they just had to obsess about making it a reality - as they are wont to do.

Datun · 15/04/2017 10:01

GuardianLions

YY. #RealWomen designed to stop the perception in advertising that women need to be tall, thin, gorgeous. It is first and foremost a marketing ploy. But it had a benefit. And it was designed for women.

Any hashtag that has the word Real and Woman in it is going to set the transactivists on fire.

I have no doubt they lobbied Dove. Being included in a campaign for women would be a dream come true. Shed loads of validation.

First they took 'woman', then 'real woman', now real 'mum'.

It's complete erasure.

And why aren't the real dads out there saying they are erasing fatherhood?

Because none of this effects men.

GuardianLions · 15/04/2017 11:04

Exactly!

noeffingidea · 15/04/2017 11:48

What is the point of this advert? Most women do not identify with transwomen, so why use transwomen to advertise products that are targeted at women?
It's like the Caitlyn Jenner cosmetics campaign ad. "I want to look like Caitlyn Jenner". Said no woman, ever.
These companies are just shooting themselves in the foot in an attempt to be politically correct and inclusive.

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WhereYouLeftIt · 15/04/2017 12:54

"What is the point of this advert? Most women do not identify with transwomen, so why use transwomen to advertise products that are targeted at women?"
Is it that younger women are still hypnotised and trying to be 'right-on' - is that who they're really targeting with the ad?

OlennasWimple · 15/04/2017 13:01

More erasure of women. More specifically, erasure of lesbian women

noeffingidea · 15/04/2017 13:09

whereyouleftit probably, but I actually think they're a small minority. DM and youtube comments (when you weed out some of the craziest, and bigoted) are more representative of general mainstream opinion.
Most people do not buy into the idealogy of gender identity over riding biological reality, and the more it comes into the spotlight the bigger the pushback will be.
Target in America suffered big losses as a direct response to allowing transwomen to use womens bathrooms, and I expect other companies will take note.

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