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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I'm not the barista's "my love"

111 replies

therealsquireofwideacre · 20/03/2017 14:04

Does that make me humourless? He was highly indignant to be asked to stop calling me "my love" in every other breath, and to be fair the male customers are all his "mate" apparently.

OP posts:
PuertoVallarta · 21/03/2017 06:59

My point is that almost every single way of addressing strangers in the English language is gendered. And many also connote class (bruv, sir, and so on).

My point is that it is very hard to communicate in ways that don't offend anyone. I guess you all think it is just as easy as smiling, but I've tried to find ways to not sound stilted without using any term which might bother someone and I can't. Maybe it's because I didn't go to uni.

I understand why OP was upset, but I wanted you all to put yourselves in our shoes.

PuertoVallarta · 21/03/2017 07:04

Cross posted.

Thank you, Bluntness.

Ehsamy · 21/03/2017 07:10

PV - "good morning" or "hello" with a warm smile is a non gendered way of addressing just about everyone. You don't need to go to university to say that.

I don't use endearments to anyone other than DH, DD and the children I work with. It would just feel fake for me to call a stranger/acquaintance "love" or "dear".

PhoenixJasmine · 21/03/2017 07:38

I don't think anyone can legitimately claim that the majority of people are not offended, tbh. Have you done a survey? Why do you think there are apparently more posters on an anonymous female-dominated online space expressing their discomfort, than seem to in real life? Perhaps women don't feel comfortable to say these things openly for fear of being branded a humourless harridan, to quote upthread. They just bite their tongue and smile to fit in with the patriarchy. I do it all the time without even realising it.

The more I think about the more I find this is really quite unacceptable to be honest - why must (mostly) women accept this behaviour from (mostly) men and if they don't like it it's the women's fault for being uptight not the men's fault for being overfamiliar?

To the whatabouters, btw, I'm perfectly capable of objecting to this whilst at the same time caring about gendered violence, campaigning against FGM and supporting charities providing women's healthcare and sanitation in developing countries.....multitasking feminist me Grin

Bluebell66 · 21/03/2017 07:43

You obviously haven't got anything more important to worry about OP, lucky you.

PhoenixJasmine · 21/03/2017 07:47

Bluebell were you being ironic following my last paragraph with that?

DevelopingDetritus · 21/03/2017 07:59

I don't mind it in general but now and again you get a condescending asshole saying it, then yes it is annoying. In principle no though, I don't mind, I think it's friendly.

ShatnersBassoon · 21/03/2017 08:03

I don't even notice when people call me love, duck or whatever. I think when you live somewhere where these things are ubiquitous, it's more like punctuation than personalised patronisation. In a café, it's warmer than sir and madam, less servile, more human, and I suppose it's hard to serve someone without referring to them somehow.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 21/03/2017 08:12

I think Childrenofthestones has got it right.

The objection seems to always be when the person using the phrase is considered lower. So the objection is usually about a (eg) workman/delivery man/shop assistant, and we draw their attention to our superiority by "calling them out" (aka "telling them off").

Yes it does happen the other way round and some people will object to their boss saying it, but far less will tell the boss off for it.

I wonder how many of those who "call people out" on it would have a go at the elderly lady who stopped me yesterday by saying "Excuse me my love." She just needed some help to pick something up.

DevelopingDetritus · 21/03/2017 08:13

I think some people really are too quick to jump on their high horse.
Lovely guy called me duck the other day, I didn't mind, I thought it was cute. Not normally said in my area, he was from out of town. My dad used to say it now and again to my mum, reminded me of my beloved dad.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 21/03/2017 08:22

Why do you think there are apparently more posters on an anonymous female-dominated online space expressing their discomfort, than seem to in real life?

This a self selecting forum of women who probably do care.
Personally I'm in the kindness/ nice/ friendly camp.

WhatWouldKeanuDo · 21/03/2017 08:39

Ehasmy you don't need to go to university to say that..

Patronising in case you didn't know.

DevelopingDetritus · 21/03/2017 08:43

I don't use endearments to anyone other than DH, DD and the children I work with. It would just feel fake for me to call a stranger/acquaintance "love" or "dear". Some people are just more friendly than others I guess.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 21/03/2017 08:50

It's a stark reminder that these men are seeing me as woman first, and essentially commenting on my fuckability

I'm pushing 58. I very much doubt they are commenting on my fuckability. Women say this too you know? Are they checking if I'm a lesbian?

NikkiP53 · 21/03/2017 08:54

He probably means well.
Think of a funny nickname to call him back for a laugh that's what I would do. Next time he says my love say ok duckie or something lol

Datun · 21/03/2017 08:56

I use endearments a lot. With friends and family. Often starting a text to a girlfriend with hallo lovely.

Personally I think it's all about context. I used to find the word 'dear' very irritating. But I often use it now in a slightly ironic way with m'dear.

Someone shouting 'oi, love' has a slightly different feeling to 'thanks, love'.

I'm trying my hardest to see if it is sexist and/or patronising, but I don't think it is. It can sometimes be inappropriate, but that's context again.

DevelopingDetritus · 21/03/2017 09:24

Some very paranoid people on here.

Childrenofthestones · 21/03/2017 09:31

"Everything is sexist and you have to point it all out"
A Sarkeesian.
For my two peneth
I think sometimes if you live, breath and constantly post about a subject you see it everywhere, including where it isn't.

Wellitwouldbenice · 21/03/2017 11:40

I get called 'my love' by women just as much as I do men - in shops etc.

PhoenixJasmine · 21/03/2017 12:36

Some people are spectacularly missing the point, I don't know if it's willfull, ignorance or lack of understanding.

Also, I don't think it's kind/friendly/nice to insinuate that women who do find this uncomfortable are paranoid/not kind/friendly/nice! The kind/friendly/nice thing to do would be to accept people's feelings and respect them, surely?

Some people find this uncomfortable. They are not wrong, that is how they feel, whether you understand why they feel that way or not. They are not hurting anyone by feeling that way. No one is saying that anyone is wrong, or a bad feminist or whatever, if they don't mind these uninvited terms of endearment. We're just saying be mindful and respectful of others feelings - why is that so unfriendly?

PlymouthMaid1 · 21/03/2017 12:47

I like it generally and way better than I would like 'Madam'.

Kimiko · 21/03/2017 12:53

Some people are spectacularly missing the point, I don't know if it's willfull, ignorance or lack of understanding

No, they just don't agree with you.

Ehsamy · 21/03/2017 13:28

WhatwouldKeanu - I wasn't patronising; I was responding to VP's remarks about not going to uni.

PixieMiss · 21/03/2017 14:42

The bus driver called me "flower" the other day.

I thought it was rather cute Blush

PhoenixJasmine · 21/03/2017 14:46

I'm not wanting everyone to agree with me - again, missed the point entirely. Feels like no one is actually reading what we're writing...