I'm not the barista's "my love"

[therealsquireofwideacre]

Does that make me humourless? He was highly indignant to be asked to stop calling me "my love" in every other breath, and to be fair the male customers are all his "mate" apparently.

Why is love patronising for a woman but mate isn't patronising for a man, why is it sexist in one case but not in than the other?

Why could "mate" not be used for women or men? "Love" can be quite patronising and belittling. Having said that, there are doubtless incidences of women calling men "love", though it doesn't seem to be as commonplace.

Not wanting to be patronised is hardly wishing to live in a "cold world" though.

I still think everyone should just call everyone "duck".

The intention of the person using it is not (always) the problem. The problem is that language (and the power relations underlying common usage) is still deeply sexed. And that after many years of feminism, and being a feminist, I'm still seeing this debated, and still seeing the same 'stop being such a humourless harridan and worry about something real.......' response cropping up.

(Oh, and that I'm still biting my tongue on here a lot and not objecting everytime someone uses cunt as an insult! I think cunts are gorgeous, and actually the highest praise to compare someone to such . Except I realize that if I tried that in everyday-usage, I would be almost certainly misunderstood.........)

I don't care about love/pet/my lovely etc if it's used equally for both sexes. That's a local/regional term, fine. If it's used just for women and not for men, like in the OPs example, then yes it is a bit irritating and a minor bit of low level sexism.

If the barista calls the females 'my love' and the males 'mate,' I fail to see how it's any more patronising or sexist than Sir or Ma'am (Madam).

But I was reared in the southern United States. Absolutely everyone there is darlin' or puddin' or sweet pea or 'honey child or...you get the idea.

Female and male.

Where do you live OP? I'm from midlands where everyone is duck, ducky, love or similar. People smile and greet each other in the street too I didn't realise how unusual this is until I visit other places where people are less friendly.
I know what I prefer

"Why could "mate" not be used for women or men?"

Because it isn't You cant make people call each other what you want them to, its an organic thing that grows, hence there being so many variations all over the country.
You really cant win though. While I happily use love I also often use mate for both and when I was almost knocked off my bike by a short haired female delivery driver who I could clearly see was a woman I shouted "Jesus Christ mate cant you see me or what?"
Her response was " I'm sorry no I didn't see you and if you don't mind I'm a woman."

"Love" is used by both sexes for both sexes here. I like that.

I also like it when people serving you in shops and pubs use it. Suggests a bit of equality rather than expecting them to tug their forelock with a sir/ madam.

I am a life-long card-carrying feminist and call everyone Sweetie or Darling.

Untie your knickers love they seem to be in a knot.

Its the way some people speak. Imagine if he'd have called you what he really thought of you, I bet that would have been much ruder!

"I still think everyone should just call everyone "duck"."

Technically a male duck is called a drake and the female is called a duck.....

It's weird. Where I live now, I really hate being called 'darling' or 'my lovely' it feels like something patronising young people in shops say to an older woman. But when I lived in London being called 'darlin' felt completely normal - just a way of expressing kindness in a harsh environment.

Is it nice and a kindness though? To be slightly patronised?

Do you find it patronising ? I don't.

If it's London, then men use mate to other men seen as equals, and love to women, the elderly, and children. Which is patronising as hell

That's your interpretation. I don't think it is patronising. I'd hate to be called "mate".

do you find it patronising, I don't>I'm still seeing this debated, and still seeing the same 'stop being such a humourless harridan and worry about something real.......' response cropping up.

Well you felt better for putting him in his place, who does he think he is trying to be friendly

I'd agree with that bluntness.

I suppose I could feel patronised for being essentially told off for using the colloquialisms of my class and geographical area of origin.

I'm a feminist and I work in a hospitality job. It's very hard to know a non-offensive way to be warm and human and greet others. We don't know your name! It's weird if we ask it. I default to "love" and "dear" because I don't know what else to do and I want to talk to you in my store without sounding like a robot.

I'm up for other suggestions, but I resent that some people would rather just load another dollop of shit onto my plate by getting upset when I am sincerely, honestly, heartfully trying to do my job well and give you a good experience.

Put yourself in our shoes and tell us what you expect. Please try to give suggestions which won't just lead to me offending other customers who don't share your same politics.

Please keep working on changing the English language and social norms. I agree this is worthy. I do not agree that people on the front lines in service jobs should bear the burden for enacting those changes.

I've lived all over the UK and have never heard a man call another man love.

Puerto - you could just smile.

I am in the objecting to overfamiliar gendered terms of endearment camp, it mainly grates on me day to day when male delivery drivers call us honey, love, babe, darling etc (all female professional workplace). There may be something in the theory posited upthreas about it being a class thing, hadn't thought about that. But I wouldn't expect a colleague to refer to me like that in any case. And I say grates on me - it actually makes me uncomfortable. It's a stark reminder that these men are seeing me as woman first, and essentially commenting on my fuckability (as it seems to reduce the older/less feminine presenting a woman is), rather than seeing me as a human being/professional/equal, which in a work context I would expect.

I LOVE the idea of out-endearing the offender - because depending on their intent (conscious or not) it should either please them - you're being friendly back - or give them pause to consider how they came across to you. Genius, NotCitrus!

What competitive terms of endearment can we come up with to have in the armoury?

Sweetpea
Honeybear
Honeybun
Schnuggums
Lambchop
Pumpkin
Lovebug
Sweetie
Angelcake
Bunny
Lovemuffin
Sugar
Poppet
Cougarbait? (depending on age!)
Combinations of standard terms- honey love babe.

not thinking of sticking these on a postit under the reception desk for ready reference, no not at all

By the way - quick googling came up with an article about terms of endearment aimed ESOL learners. It had a handy bullet point list of when they generally are and aren't socially acceptable. Top of the list for when not to use them was when you don't know if someone would be ok with it, as well as someone you don't know, in a workplace or formal setting, or a man to a girl or woman you are not familiar with as it can be seen as condescending or rude.

Eshamy, what patronizing advice.

Thank you for nothing.

All the people in cafes and restaurants and shops should just stand around smiling and not talking to anyone. Applause for your wonderful insights. Bork.

You know, I thought everyone else was posting in good faith but just not really considering the bind that hospitality workers are in. But you? Just a smug cheap shot. If I thought your advice was serious and I followed it, I'd be written up by lunchtime.

For everyone else, still not really seeing much empathy for people just trying to do our jobs. I'm not being goady, but you're completely discounting people doing their jobs with good intentions. We didn't make the bloody linguistic niceties. We are just doing what is expected of us.

Come to Liverpool, Ehsamy. Loads of blokes calling other blokes 'love'.

It utterly freaked out my DH the first time he came 'home' with me. Which would suggest that to some men it does have a (mild) sexual component, or else why would it bother him?

Mind you, he also got freaked out that men talk to each other in the loos there, too. Apparently that's also a no-no darn Sarf.

Despite having grown up in that culture, I don't often like people I don't know calling me love now that I live in the south. It does feel patronising on occasion - it's a matter of context and how it's said. There was a bloke in our works canteen who said it very aggressively - in no way was it meant as a friendly greeting and I did ask him not to do it.

As we weren't there and don't know the context, how about we stop calling the OP humourless and accept that it made her uncomfortable/annoyed/feel belittled?

Bloody hell, PV - keep your hair on! I wasn't suggesting you don't speak. You were asking for suggestions as to how you might come across as warm and welcoming. For me the most effective way is to smile and be smiled at. Obviously, there is verbal interaction as well, but I've had plenty of people call me 'love' or 'darling' without a smile on their face which renders it even more meaningless.

Bloody hell Puerto, are you ok? Bit of an overreaction no? I didn't see Eshamy's post as patronising at all, but serious advice. If you really think your manager would discipline you for smiling at customers but refraining from calling them darling then I'm a bit worried about your workplace culture!

I think the point is - not everyone thinks these things are linguistic niceties, and definitely don't expect them of you as you serve food. Some people find them uncomfortable or inappropriate in this context. Surely it's less offensive all round to just cheerfully say "here you go" with a friendly smile, than risk adding "my love" and risk offence from your customer - I doubt anyone accepting of familiar terms would be walking away muttering, "well she didn't call me honey darling, I'm offended!".

I really can't see that you're in a bind at all - I'd suggest stop blaming people who find your method offensive, and start thinking of a new strategy with less potential to offend.

In real life there are very very few people who are offended by this. Yes those few people do seem to be mumsnetters it appears, but in reality these language choices are common place and I've never once seen or met anyone remotely offended.

Puerto, I'd really not worry too much. Yes a small handful of people may not like it, but the overwhelming majority in real life will find it friendly and welcoming.

Please don't stop pleasing the overwhelming many to satisfy the very few. There is always someone offended about something. 🤔

It really depends how it's said and used. I'm quite formal (I'm told) but I find it friendly and quite nice most of the time. I suppose it's all about intention.

sometimes men find it weird when you call them love (especially if you're a man too-I'm not) so they often get mate.
Get over yourself
Why is it ok for men to find it weird and a change be made, and not women? Why do women have to "get over themselves"?
I don't mind myself, but I can see why some people do and surely it would just be easier not use pet names to clients.