Misgendered trans people doth protest too much

[joystir59]

Just that really- as a short grey haired lesbian I sometimes get called sir. Does it send me screaming abuse at the perpetrator as if they have committed a major crime and I am mortally offended? Nope. Because I know what I am. So its water off a lesbian's back. Trans people scream blue murder because basically they are living a lie and cant stand being reminded of what they really are- men pretending to be women. What do others think?

But Its NOT allegingtobefine for my daughter if you discriminate against her like this!

In what way is it discriminatory to not share someone's beliefs?

Because you want to bar her from the women's only rape crisis centre, or changing rooms. You want to humiliate her. Because you know, the only alternative is the male changing rooms.

So it's ok for you to ignore the beliefs of women with religious, cultural and trauma barriers?

Humiliation? Where on earth did you get that from? THIRD SPACES. People keep saying this to you. Under the Equality Act and in many policies, your daughter would be offered a private space if she requested it.

Do you usually approve of guilting women into lowering their boundaries and giving up their interests to protect others?

My daughter is not male bodied. She is female bodied. She has breasts. Nobody would be alarmed or upset.

I don't want to humiliate them. Males should not be in single sex spaces.

What about the women in this hypothetical rape crisis centre, how will they feel sharing the space with a man?

Throw them to the lions. We don't care, they aren't one of us, so it doesn't matter!

My daughter is not male bodied. She is female bodied. She has breasts. Nobody would be alarmed or upset.

Only females can be female bodied. Breasts are not the signifier of being female, or do you think that women with mastectomies are men

Throw them to the lions. We don't care, they aren't one of us, so it doesn't matter!

Women have fought for years for safe spaces for women in all sorts of areas. If trans people want to fight for safe spaces for trans people then most woman would back them all the way.

But women aren't going to willingly give up these hard fought for safe spaces because a man says he is a woman and must be allowed access.

Is a woman with a hysterectomy not a woman? I thought it was all about biology. Oh, sorry, only the biology that they have at birth. Who made that one up. It's a good one, because it is the one that nobody can argue against. So lets define it that way. Yes, we are God. We can make up the rules.

feminist there is a way for your daughter to access safe spaces that doesn’t include opening up women’s spaces to men. I understand you think third spaces are unlikely but I think they’re worth campaigning for.

Your daughter is a transwoman, not a woman. She cannot be a woman, any more than a born woman can be a transwoman. To claim it is to erase the reality of the person.

I'm out, this is clearly very personal to you but this is ranting not debate.

You do not decide whether my daughter is a woman. It is not for you to decide.

Is a woman with a hysterectomy not a woman? I thought it was all about biology. Oh, sorry, only the biology that they have at birth. Who made that one up. It's a good one, because it is the one that nobody can argue against. So lets define it that way

It is all about biology yes.

That is why when 1000s of year old skeletons are dug up the sex can be identified without much difficulty.

That is why when a man and a woman have special cuddles the woman might become pregnant.

That is why your child will never need a smear test, but they will need to keep an eye on their prostate when they get older.

Simple biological fact that cannot be changed through body modification.

You do not decide whether my daughter is a woman. It is not for you to decide.

That's kind of like saying I don't get to decide that the earth orbits the sun. It's not something that someone decides. It's a basic fact. It just is.

My daughter will need mammograms, breast cancer is a risk. A lesbian couple don't need to worry about the 'special cuddles' does that mean they aren't both women? So, I'm a woman because I might get cervical cancer? Gosh. That wasn't in the Bible.

But it isn't a fact, is it. You have chosen to make sex ID at birth the way of distinguishing male from female.

I understand your child wanting to escape men’s violence but it sounds as though it’s more to do with validation of being a woman. Third spaces would be a way for your child to be safe, maintain privacy and dignity etc while also doing the same for women. I don’t understand the objection or dismissal of this
solution which keeps everyone safe.

feminist what other way is there to distinguish men and women? Would genuinely be interested in your thoughts as maybe it’s a failure of imagination on my part but I can’t see how else to do it.

My daughter will need mammograms, breast cancer is a risk

Of course. Men can get breast cancer too ?in fact I think transwomen might be at higher risk because of all of the hormones?)

A lesbian couple don't need to worry about the 'special cuddles' does that mean they aren't both women?

You need a man and a women to make a baby. Lesbian couples and gay couples are both perfectly safe from accidental pregnancy

So, I'm a woman because I might get cervical cancer? Gosh. That wasn't in the Bible

No. You are a women because you have or had a cervix, men do not have a cervix ever. Some women so not have a cervix for various reasons, they are still women though as they are of the sex class that has cervixes.

But it isn't a fact, is it. You have chosen to make sex ID at birth the way of distinguishing male from female

How would else would you distinguish male from female

F4, were you the same poster who was insisting that if your son can't be a "woman," you would have no choice but to force him to play rugby? (Apologies if I'm mixing you up with someone else.)

4 you keep referencing God and the bible in your rampant posting on all threads and sundry.

Is this because your crew are so hellbent convinced that GC groups and thinkers are all funded by American fundamentalist Christians and you think you're being especially clever?

More fool me if that’s the case floral, I assumed it was because the bible was important to feminist

Committing the sin of commenting without reading all the previous ones, so apologies if this has already been said. In that case, seconding.

Women have been misgendered since the year dot. If you've never been in a group greeted as "Hi, guys!" erasing every woman in it you're very lucky. And the default pronoun being "he" and conveniently erasing women in history, arts, science, etc., etc., etc.

We've been dealing with that forever. Almost always by soldiering on and "ignoring" it. If we started threatening suicide, can't you just see the reaction?

So, no, not terribly sympathetic to anyone throwing fits about misgendering. Deal with the massive issue women face first. Then we'll talk.

And there's another point. Every group gets to define itself. You can't just call yourself black (hello Dolezal) or Jewish because you feel like it and/or because you'd like to benefit from affirmative action. Except women. Everybody else (read: men) get to define women and women are supposed to shut up. Well, that's a new idea I've never heard before.

By the way, I assume Dr. Jane Clare Jones excellent piece on how identities are defined has already been cited? Identity and Recognition. Part of the gist being that identities are not solely or even mostly about internal characteristics but also about how they're viewed in relation to others around them. There is necessarily a social component. One which some trans activists are trying to pretend away.