Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

[dorade]

Everyone, regardless of race, creed or sex is entitles to the same human rights.

I have three issues with much of the current trans ideology:

1. The erosion of women's spaces, sports, achievements and quotas by biological males who wish to identify as females.

1. The transing (and therefore subjection to lifelong medical treatments, invasive surgery and potential sterilisation) of children for failure to comply with societally-imposed gender norms.

1. The erasure of lesbians, either by transing of potentially lesbian girls or by transwomen claiming to be lesbians.

The trans lobby is vocal and well funded. They have found an enormously soft target in schools/government/social care, all of whom unsurprisingly associate transgender with gay and lesbian issues and don't want to repeat the bigotry that gay and lesbian people were (and are) subjected to. Identity is not the same as sexual orientation. A person's sexual orientation treads on no-one else's rights. The same cannot be said for gender identity.

When articles, such as the recent transgender rapist one, appear in the press, the vast majority of comments show that the public is not fooled. Yet people keep quiet so as not to appear bigoted, thus allowing the movement to steamroller on at the expense of women and children.

I believe that the main target for opposition should be in our schools. Organisations such as Gires and Gendered Intelligence distribute material that promotes ideas such as pink and blue brains and that any child can choose whether to be a girl or a boy to impressionable children, backed up by teachers. Opposition to this is needed and it is not happening in any concerted way. I think a backlash has every chance of succeeding as there is huge latent support for it.

The average person in the street knows little to nothing of trans issues, but is likely to believe that a transwoman will have had his penis removed. The fact that in 2 weeks' time the Government is going to be debating replacing sex with gender identity as a protected characteristic is way off the radar of 99% of the population.

Mumsnet is brilliant in debating these issues, but we need to take it to the next level.

Take care wood

Wood, if you're still reading

It's all gone very meta hasn't it. I'm gender critical, consider myself a liberal but I'm a Scot who doesn't want Scottish Independence.

I spend my whole life nodding in agreement with people I'm supposed to despise.

And I can't admit to any of it on Facebook. If my friends knew I was gender critical and pro union I might as well change my name to Donald Trump and be done with it.

I agree Morris. I have always been left wing but I'm not up for ticking boxes in someone else's ideology - I can think for myself and if that means having odd bedfellows in specific issues, sofuckit

And now Jim Sillars, a man whose whole life has been dedicated to Scottish independence, has stated he won't vote yes if it means staying in the EU because he hates the EU so much.

My head is spinning like the blooming Excorcist :)

Please accept my humble and truly sincere apologies for bringing Jim Sillars onto a trans thread.

It's a step too far.

Evening twittters. I'm still plugging away with the re-tweets, I've got 50 followers now with my radfem account I'm quite proud . Just wanted to flag India Willoughby's new article:

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/03/31/india-willoughby-unless-you-are-transitioning-stay-out-the-ladies/amp/

Getting a flaming on twitter, but it's the first time I've come close to agreeing and thought it was interesting that someone relatively high-profile is voicing these concerns...

You agree with her that gg & jm are spewing hate speach (paraphrasing) & that transvestites are merely 'what' not people who, or something human?

I thought it was an awful article. All us tw are real women so we should get in the ladies & anyone else shdn't. But she still asserts that transioned tw are the same as women. Which is the start of the problem

No of course not. Don't be goady and have a .

I do think that it's the first time I've seen a transactivist recognise that the lack of an objective measure poses risks. And it's not a huge leap from accepting that, to saying that of course there isn't an objective measurement that can differentiate between a 'real' transwomen and a 'fake' transwomen (her ideas, not mine). Now they'd never say that, or even approach that, but even the fact that someone like India Willoughby's is voicing concerns over the acceptance of men into safe spaces based on 'feelz' on the day is a step I've not seen before, and frankly against this onslaught I'm pleased to see any semblance of sense amongst the rubbish.

Am I fuck being goady, it was real questions

So because one out a bunch of abusive tra's who violate boundaries and assume their rights trump ours dies this considerately to a lesser degree that's a good thing? Isn't half of what everyone talks about on these threads how everyone gives an inch with pronouns & tw who 'pass' & the whole 'gender spetrum' take a mile because of it? There's plenty in the article about how transvestites get in the way of real tw rights and needs and makes their lives difficult. Doesn't seem very women orientated at all. Just awfully me me me of India.

India is deliberately moving the goalposts. She can see how idiotic some of the trans-activist rhetoric is and how the fetishisits are being recognised and she is trying desperately to distance herself from it. Despite having spouted it constantly.

She is seeing which way the wind is blowing due to the idiocy of the trans ideology (which she has fully supported) and is now trying to grade men into real women (presumably like her) and fake women, like anyone who commits a crime.

It's self serving hypocrisy at its highest degree.

This
Datun "India is deliberately moving the goalposts. She can see how idiotic some of the trans-activist rhetoric is and how the fetishisits are being recognised and she is trying desperately to distance herself from it. Despite having spouted it constantly.

She is seeing which way the wind is blowing due to the idiocy of the trans ideology (which she has fully supported) and is now trying to grade men into real women (presumably like her) and fake women, like anyone who commits a crime.

It's self serving hypocrisy at its highest degree".

India is no more a woman than a transvestite is. The trans community was delighted that all these people were coming out as it leant credence to their narrative. They were welcomed with open arms to the bandwagon.

Now the bandwagon is in danger of tipping over because the vast majority of transwomen have a fetish and people like India are panicking that their assertion is going to look dodgy to even the most inclusive of people.

India is worried that having been given an inch, she can now no longer take a mile.

Her new found stance is in insidious and clever. It's also dangerous.

I suspect she has thought long and hard about that Jenny Murray interview. Her reaction to it was that Jenny Murray is a dinosaur, ignorant and should be sacked. She was also in dire need of a makeover, according to India.

Despite Jenni Murray talking explicitly about India ( not a transvestite, not someone else) India has now decided that she will rewrite history (for the second time) and make out that Jenni was not talking about people like her at all. And therefore she may have a point.

If anyone thinks there is no internal, wholesale delusion going on, this must prove the point.

India says she is worried about women like her. What about women in general, the ones who don't require a trip to the hospital, because they are born female?

Plus how are we supposed to tell a bloke in a dress with make-up from a transwomen? Genuine question. In the nicest possible way, I have been sat at tables next to people I assumed were transwomen. How do I know if they were out of the day cross-dressing or transitioning or transitioned? The point is I would have no idea without asking. Which legally I cannot do. Would I have been uncomfortable in the bathroom - yes, afraid so.

Plus how are we supposed to tell a bloke in a dress with make-up from a transwomen? I'm going to tweet her that question.

I'm wondering if the 'a woman is anyone who says they are' brigade will turn on India.

I can't imagine how on earth that debate will go down.

India is pissed off that men she doesn't believe are women are appropriating her struggle and experience.

Not sure if this is the correct thread but I see some students at Oxford University are calling for Jenni Murray to be "no platformed" from a literary festival today: www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/oxford-students-try-to-gag-jenni-murray-as-transphobic-5l9mb0k7s

Maybe they'll want to no-platform India next. Imagine the outrage.

Indeed. I thought this "no platforming" trend was ridiculous enough anyway, but to demand someone not be allowed to speak simply for pointing out that someone who's "transitioned to being a woman" didn't grow up with the experiences of being a girl would be laughable if it wasn't so dangerous.

Has this been posted yet?

I wonder if Willoughby's whinge will assist the rifts between transsexuals, transgenders and transtrenders?

AnotherQuoll

Personally I think it will only serve to highlight the dodgy underbelly. And as there is no way of telling one from the other...

Loving The Feminism2017 hashtag on twitter atm.