Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

[dorade]

Everyone, regardless of race, creed or sex is entitles to the same human rights.

I have three issues with much of the current trans ideology:

1. The erosion of women's spaces, sports, achievements and quotas by biological males who wish to identify as females.

1. The transing (and therefore subjection to lifelong medical treatments, invasive surgery and potential sterilisation) of children for failure to comply with societally-imposed gender norms.

1. The erasure of lesbians, either by transing of potentially lesbian girls or by transwomen claiming to be lesbians.

The trans lobby is vocal and well funded. They have found an enormously soft target in schools/government/social care, all of whom unsurprisingly associate transgender with gay and lesbian issues and don't want to repeat the bigotry that gay and lesbian people were (and are) subjected to. Identity is not the same as sexual orientation. A person's sexual orientation treads on no-one else's rights. The same cannot be said for gender identity.

When articles, such as the recent transgender rapist one, appear in the press, the vast majority of comments show that the public is not fooled. Yet people keep quiet so as not to appear bigoted, thus allowing the movement to steamroller on at the expense of women and children.

I believe that the main target for opposition should be in our schools. Organisations such as Gires and Gendered Intelligence distribute material that promotes ideas such as pink and blue brains and that any child can choose whether to be a girl or a boy to impressionable children, backed up by teachers. Opposition to this is needed and it is not happening in any concerted way. I think a backlash has every chance of succeeding as there is huge latent support for it.

The average person in the street knows little to nothing of trans issues, but is likely to believe that a transwoman will have had his penis removed. The fact that in 2 weeks' time the Government is going to be debating replacing sex with gender identity as a protected characteristic is way off the radar of 99% of the population.

Mumsnet is brilliant in debating these issues, but we need to take it to the next level.

MrsFogi, I am a poster unafraid to reveal my real identity and indeed I am currently in discussion with appropriate individuals with regard to putting together an article for inclusion on a website - but yes I agree more people who have strong feelings would carry more weight if they are prepared to stand up and be counted xx

Have you seen that the transwoman who created the "TERF tracker" to stalk and harass women has resigned after their past convictions as a violent sex offender were outed?

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2015/01/08/terf-tracker-allison-woolbert-outed-as-violent-sex-offender-resigns-citing-his-unconscionable-behavior-as-a-human-being/

They were outed by fellow transwoman. Some very sensible comments at the end. More discoveries of this sort would help.

That was two years ago ... But it does not surprise me. I suspect many are like her. The trans stuff has given them a socially sanctioned outlet for their violence and hatred.

Ack sorry it's out of date. It was just posted in a FB group I'm on and I thought it was current. That will teach me to check dates before sharing!

I have started out gingerly by liking and retweeting posts supporting JM - also Janice Turner who writes for the Times also makes gender critical arguments - in my RL professional name. I determinedly say sex when sex and not gender is meant.

I had the strange experience the other day of changing my outfit as it felt rather like a parody of what female would be, if that makes sense. It felt like dress-up female (shift dress and court shoes). I went to work in jeans and Converse instead as a kind of not identifying as female gender statement. It is difficult to explain. I am just as much a woman in jeans and Converse. Maybe less professional looking, but I decided my brain would do just the same job.

Tweeting #21CSuffragette like crazy - lets make this movement take flight!

All of us who feel strongly about this issue (whether or not involved in any organised campaign) must be willing to put our heads above the parapet and say so on our social media pages and in our own names (and therefore take the risk of being attacked

Speaking up is hard - I have been attacked on Twitter by some trans activists who did not agree with some things I said and also attacked by some feminists who did not agree with some things I said. I've also been attacked on Twitter by men who did not agree with some things I said on feminism.

Putting your head above the parapet is really hard. Social media is a scary place to be when you come back and find a lot of notifications from people who have retweeted something they did not agree with.

I have no problem speaking up irl. My friends & dh allways know my opinions on things. But I don't work, my old work I expect would have been fine to voice this, especially in relation to vulnerable, older female s/u with mh problems often linked to how men treated them. I could do that if u go back ever. But u spend my days caring for disabled children and dealing with their appointments/meetings etc.

And I don't do much s/m & never in my real name, with rl friends, because if safety reasons from my past. So it's not as simple as demanding everyone speaks up. I also could attend anything irl, but hopefully could in time, and I can't organise period, never mind with the shit I have going on & zero help etc

Do you have a link to new stateman saying that?

Here's the New Statesman link.

Thanks

This is a list of demands that I think are important.

The female sex should be ensured the right to;

A) Be recognised as a group that is biologically distinct from the male sex.

B) Access to spaces that are exclusively for the female sex.

C) Refuse to participate in another persons sexual fantasy.

D) Form and publicly advertise groups that are exclusively for the female sex.

E) Select members of the female sex as service providers in certain situations.

F) Compete in sports that are exclusively for the female sex.

G) Have statistics recorded by sex, not by the social role (gender) one assumes.

H) Exclusive access to awards, grants and positions that are meant for the female sex, to try and remedy sex discrimination against females.

Children and young people should be ensured the right to;

A) Protection from exploitation in their developmental years.

B) Extensive counselling for mental health problems, instead of being offered drastic medical treatments as a quick fix solution.

C) Professional and institutional support, such as from schools, etc., to accept their bodies and themselves as they are.

Children and young people should also have the right to be taught factual information in schools and other institutions such as;

A) The scientific facts about biological sex, e.g. That it is determined at conception and cannot be changed.

B) The fact that sex stereotypes (gender) are harmful and antiquated.

C) The fact that there is no such thing as a "sexed brain", or being "stuck in the wrong body", that this is a sexist concept based on harmful stereotypes of the sexes.

D) The fact that being attracted to the same sex is not a sign of being the opposite sex, that to imply otherwise is homophobic.

I plan to set up a website with these demands on, and explain what is meant by them.

Dbs checks too, if someone changes gender they don't show up past records do they?

Dbs checks too, if someone changes gender they don't show up past records do they

No - such a thing is not shown on a certificate that many people can see on request.

I can provide links to a couple of gender-critical feminist activist groups on Facebook if anyone wants to PM me.

I think everybody should speak up in their real names who can reasonably safely afford to risk it. I think everybody who can't do that safely, or who can only do so in some contexts, should do what they can but not put themselves in danger.

Yes we are losing our freedom of speech. If we lose our jobs and support networks too I can't see who benefits. It won't make people listen to us and it will make it difficult for us to continue campaigning because we'll be too busy and stressed scrabbling around in friendless poverty.

There are lots of ways to help anonymously/confidentially. Personally, I'm waiting for the huge 'not in our name' petition signed by the 'vast majority of transpeople' who we are always told don't agree with the TA's but are too scared to speak up. I think that petition would carry a lot of weight, even if it was mostly signed anonymously.

If you don't want to be in an echo chamber on Twitter then don't create one. Tweet about a range of things, follow a range of people. Follow and tweet (respectfully) @ people you don't agree with (People like Maria Miller, I mean, not people like Stavvers ) Have conversations. Change minds.

I have to say I don't 'get' the #21Csuffragette tag. It doesn't seem very relevant to this particular battle. The Suffragettes were fighting for the law to change to give women rights we did not yet have. We are fighting against changes in the law (as well as policies, guidance etc.) which take away women's rights that we have not long won. If we need a tag I'd prefer something a bit more 'resistance'

What is the aim of this hashtag though?

There really are not enough gender critical MNers to get this trending and it's not relevant enough to this debate to resonate with a wider audience. It won't get our views out there.

Is it just so we can find each other? There's a twitter list for that isn't there? for doing that Overthinking, I've only followed a few of you so far but I will get round to everyone. It's a new account and it's already been locked once so I'm being super careful. Also, see above re: echo chambers.

One of the best ways to use hashtags IME is to see what other people are using and join in. That's the fastest way to get things trending and build a critical mass. You don't have to confine yourself to tags that gender critical feminists are using either. I've tweeted a couple of awful stories of female oppression with the #cisprivilege tag.

Have conversations. Change minds

I think it's important to try and have conversations and change minds / show other perspectives on social media.

It also shows what other people think who don't necessarily think what you do.

But.....I was retweeted by Katie Hopkins when I made a point that she hadn't considered. Her reply was quite cutting and irrelevant to the point but she retweeted my comment and reply to her millions of supporters and that had an impact. I had to turn off notifications.

Twitter and other social media places can be a tough place - but it's a place people probably need to be. I do think it's important not to be an echo chamber but it's very hard trying to engage on social media with people who have views that they want to stick to - so it's not hard to see why people like to stay in their safe place.

Excellent list Witching.

True, Ego.

WitchingHour that list is spot on, I'd vote for that. It would be good to add something about lesbians' right to have their sexuality and boundaries respected but I don't know how to word it.

This probably sounds a bit out there, but it's apparently not that hard to set up a political party. Through campaigning on an unrelated issue I know of a group of campaigners who did this in the 2015 general election, not because they hoped to win a single seat but because it's much harder to shut you up if you're a political party. I don't know the ins and outs of how this works, but they were definitely effective at spreading their message, at a time the mainstream media were either ignoring them or painting them as devils.

But.....I was retweeted by Katie Hopkins when I made a point that she hadn't considered

When I said not people like stavvers I didn't just mean stavvers! I hope you're OK

Don't bother trying to engage with staunch believers in the gender agenda. There are a massive number of people who support this agenda because they simply haven't thought about it much and it seems like the kind thing to do. Those are the minds to change.

I agree re the 21CSuffragette hashtag - it is too long and would not get trending anytime soon but hopefully it has served its initial purpose of flagging up Mners who have set up new twitter accounts and are trying to find friendly people to follow. Hopefully most people have connected up at this point - if you see this image you will have found me on twitter - I have suggested that "Lets stick to karyotypes not stereotypes"

When I said not people like stavvers I didn't just mean stavvers! I hope you're OK

I can only feel for really prominent people who must get loads of notifications. I don't know how people like Jess Phillips, Diane Abbot, Caroline Carioda-Perez and others handle the comments and notifications they must get.