Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

[dorade]

Everyone, regardless of race, creed or sex is entitles to the same human rights.

I have three issues with much of the current trans ideology:

1. The erosion of women's spaces, sports, achievements and quotas by biological males who wish to identify as females.

1. The transing (and therefore subjection to lifelong medical treatments, invasive surgery and potential sterilisation) of children for failure to comply with societally-imposed gender norms.

1. The erasure of lesbians, either by transing of potentially lesbian girls or by transwomen claiming to be lesbians.

The trans lobby is vocal and well funded. They have found an enormously soft target in schools/government/social care, all of whom unsurprisingly associate transgender with gay and lesbian issues and don't want to repeat the bigotry that gay and lesbian people were (and are) subjected to. Identity is not the same as sexual orientation. A person's sexual orientation treads on no-one else's rights. The same cannot be said for gender identity.

When articles, such as the recent transgender rapist one, appear in the press, the vast majority of comments show that the public is not fooled. Yet people keep quiet so as not to appear bigoted, thus allowing the movement to steamroller on at the expense of women and children.

I believe that the main target for opposition should be in our schools. Organisations such as Gires and Gendered Intelligence distribute material that promotes ideas such as pink and blue brains and that any child can choose whether to be a girl or a boy to impressionable children, backed up by teachers. Opposition to this is needed and it is not happening in any concerted way. I think a backlash has every chance of succeeding as there is huge latent support for it.

The average person in the street knows little to nothing of trans issues, but is likely to believe that a transwoman will have had his penis removed. The fact that in 2 weeks' time the Government is going to be debating replacing sex with gender identity as a protected characteristic is way off the radar of 99% of the population.

Mumsnet is brilliant in debating these issues, but we need to take it to the next level.

FOI's could be useful.

I've not saved the link to the CPS guidance so I don't know how long it's been up. If it's new guidance that won't have been adopted by schools yet it's worth objecting directly to the CPS. If it's a few months old it might be worth doing a FOI request to find out which schools have adopted their guidance, and also objecting directly to the CPS.

Anybody can submit a FOI request to find out what their child is being taught about LGBT issues at school, what resources they are using and where those resources come from.

I feel like we need to get gay men involved. This whole agenda seems really homophobic to me. Particularly when it comes to transing kids and sports people. The Iranian women's soccer team is a good example.
I'm guessing most LGBT lobby groups get a considerable part of their funding from the G members so turning opinion in the gay community could have real impact.

"I also think it would help on our references thread to have a few articles to link too which disprove the pink/ blue brain theory."

As well as including meta studies that debunk brain sex, I think it would also be useful to have studies that support the fact that the brain is plastic and changes with behaviours, thoughts etc. There are plenty of studies available on this, for example there are some that demonstrate how areas of London taxi drivers brains changes when they learn "the knowledge", there are some that show the brains of ballet dancers change when they learn to pirouette. As well as a whole plethora of studies on how cognitive behaviour therapy causes changes in the brain in people suffering from a whole host of emotional problems. This all supports the view that there is no such thing as a brain that is fixed in a pre-programmed manner like the ta's suggest.

I think we need to make it clear that neuro connections or brain shapes that fMRI scans show are not static, they can be altered by changing behaviour, thought pattens etc. This means that the size of areas of brains and the neuro connections that form in our brains are caused by our behaviour and thoughts, which in turn are influenced by our experiences, both cultural and personal. In other words there is no such thing as a female or male brain, unless it refers to a brain that belongs to a female, much like saying a female liver, or a female heart.

Good thinking fruitloving

Can transwomen menstruate, fall pregnant and give birth? Thought not.

Really worried about this issue now. I have nothing against a man thinking he's a women. What I don't agree with is, a man with a fully functioning dick, dressed like a stereotypical woman, accessing women only protected areas and then harming, raping, disrespecting women.

Fucking misogynist pigs, that's what they are.

I've just complained to the CPS using the link posted by Pencils above

CPS complaints

I'm in, but beyond the CPS and my MP (who won't be interested or listen as he's got bigger fish to fry) I'm not sure what I can do

Look up Laurie Penny on twitter. Depressing.

I think their main weapon is social media. The truth is there is many people who will read social media as the truth as long as it's trending.

Of course mumsnet is social media, but is only relevant to people looking, it doesn't have the same impact as Facebook or twitter.

I am sure there are marketing experts, website builders etc etc on this thread, I am willing to lend my project management and business analysis skills to a good project!

"I feel like we need to get gay men involved. This whole agenda seems really homophobic to me."

It is homophobic, but it is mostly lesbians that are affected by it in day to day life. I really don't think you will see gay men turning against this anytime soon. I have spoken to many gay men, most have sympathy even for autogynephiliacs and think their fetishises should be accepted. Some gay men are mildly pissed off that autos do not like them performing drag as they consider it transphobic, but apart from that, there is are very few gay men critical about it.

Gay men are not really affected by any of this on a personal basis, as heterosexual women who trans cannot put as much pressure on gay men to date them like heterosexual men can lesbians. Gay men just say piss off, they are only a minor inconvenience to them, therefore there is much less motivation for them. Many gay men unfortunately are also very misogynistic themselves, it was after all a gay man who started all this woman's brain trapped in the wrong body nonsense to explain why gay men were gay. Gay men for the most part seem perfectly happy to throw younger more "feminine" gay men under the bus.

Lesbians on the other hand are being targeted by autogynephiliacs and told they should accept these men as partners or they are "transphobic" bigots. If they still like Ftt they are expected to call themselves bisexual, or pansexual in order to pretend the woman they partnering with is really a man. Lesbian clubs and meeting places are nonexistent now, they are all "queer" spaces, which are mixed. Gay men in contrast still have their own spaces, where they exclude women. It is lesbians who the trans agenda affects mostly, the majority of gay men do not really have a problem with it.

I'm in for activism. I like the references thread idea, that would be perfect when you need a good source to refute bad science and crime stats.

As another believer in biology over feelz I'm 100% in.

I really struggle to keep up with long threads though and basically need there to be a place that concisely tells us what to do - person to write to, petition to sign etc.

Nothing to add yet, but just wanted to let you all know you are amazing

Bev incorrect facts about things like intersex,

Can you specify what I have posted which is factually incorrect?

Sorry I haven't been posting, but I do have other things to do - like most on MN!

Here is a video of a talk about the social and political construction of transgenderism, perhaps it could be added to the references thread.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=DTPgmTVt5_Q

I have been following these threads for a long time and, like many of you , have changed my view from being tolerant and 'kind', to being outraged at what is being expected of women.

Someone suggested a thread for reference.
Please do that.
I have initiated this subject with everyone I know for months and have been horrified that highly educated, supposedly well informed people are oblivious.
They look at me with disbelief, thinking I've finally lost touch with reality!

Who can blame them really.

I can never remember and often not find the references to send them.

A dedicated thread would be incredibly helpful.

I know that with the same information that I've read, thanks to you wonderful people, my friends and aquaintances would see the light and spread the word.

If people want links I've got hundreds!

Yes Prawn! Please post links!

PencilsinSpace - the CPS document dates from 2014. It's unclear how many schools it's been used in (it's originally based on work done by CPS North West). They are currently updating their schools packs - right NOW is the time to intervene to tell them that we want schools packs that focus on sexual harassment of girls in schools (there was a recent report showing this was a massive problem), and which give sensible messages about setting clear boundaries and trusting your instincts about people. Oh, and also telling them that their previous trans modules (hopefully soon to be shelved) were full of inaccurate, manipulative, abusive rubbish.

Yes a dedicated thread for links to proper information would be great. I also have hundreds of links I've been emailing to myself for ages now.
These are two links that I sometimes circulate. The first is a bit sly, because it's Kimberley Crenshaw, the US feminist critical race theorist who first coined the term "intersectionality" I just suggested it to a lecturer I know, who told me her students were really interested in it and asked loads of questions. It totally interrupts the idea that intersectional feminism is all about trans and introduces actual, real life, legal, legislative, discriminatory intersections related to race, social class, ability and so on. Crenshaw is very listenable. She speaks simply and is easy to understand. She does mention trans women at some point but the talk is focused on women and girls, especially WOC.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=-DW4HLgYPlA
The other link I've been brave enough to circulate to a few lecturers, but not brave enough to get it out in front of students yet, is Rebecca Reilly Cooper speaking on an Australian radio show about why gender as identity is so incoherent. Cooper speaks clearly and precisely about this and reasons it through using philosophical methods but again it is listenable and not difficult to understand. I think she is great and one of the few people I know of who can articulate the problems calmly and well. She gets a lot of stick on twitter so support her if you can.
rebeccarc.com/2016/09/26/abc-radio-philosophers-zone-interview-on-gender-identity/

I'm interested/ place marking. I know quite a few RL women of similar minds.

I think that it's a bit early to start writing off the gay male community as allies.

I have had some success raising these issues with my gay friends. The argument that worked best was the transing of gnc children. Several of my friends insisted they were girls for years, Barbies, pink and all that shit. All now very happy gc gay men. When I pointed out they would probably been considered trans now it did help to change attitudes. I still have some work to do as obviously having experienced discrimination and abuse for being gnc kids they have a great deal of empathy for others going through similar things but I do like to think I have sown the seeds of doubt.