Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

[dorade]

Everyone, regardless of race, creed or sex is entitles to the same human rights.

I have three issues with much of the current trans ideology:

1. The erosion of women's spaces, sports, achievements and quotas by biological males who wish to identify as females.

1. The transing (and therefore subjection to lifelong medical treatments, invasive surgery and potential sterilisation) of children for failure to comply with societally-imposed gender norms.

1. The erasure of lesbians, either by transing of potentially lesbian girls or by transwomen claiming to be lesbians.

The trans lobby is vocal and well funded. They have found an enormously soft target in schools/government/social care, all of whom unsurprisingly associate transgender with gay and lesbian issues and don't want to repeat the bigotry that gay and lesbian people were (and are) subjected to. Identity is not the same as sexual orientation. A person's sexual orientation treads on no-one else's rights. The same cannot be said for gender identity.

When articles, such as the recent transgender rapist one, appear in the press, the vast majority of comments show that the public is not fooled. Yet people keep quiet so as not to appear bigoted, thus allowing the movement to steamroller on at the expense of women and children.

I believe that the main target for opposition should be in our schools. Organisations such as Gires and Gendered Intelligence distribute material that promotes ideas such as pink and blue brains and that any child can choose whether to be a girl or a boy to impressionable children, backed up by teachers. Opposition to this is needed and it is not happening in any concerted way. I think a backlash has every chance of succeeding as there is huge latent support for it.

The average person in the street knows little to nothing of trans issues, but is likely to believe that a transwoman will have had his penis removed. The fact that in 2 weeks' time the Government is going to be debating replacing sex with gender identity as a protected characteristic is way off the radar of 99% of the population.

Mumsnet is brilliant in debating these issues, but we need to take it to the next level.

"I have had some success raising these issues with my gay friends. The argument that worked best was the transing of gnc children. Several of my friends insisted they were girls for years, Barbies, pink and all that shit. All now very happy gc gay men. When I pointed out they would probably been considered trans now it did help to change attitudes."

I've had exactly the same experience. Also found they are just as appalled by the "cotton ceiling" as we are.

Re having one 'action' thread, maybe add 'write to your MP' to the 'to do' list.

lume, I asked for a template letter from someone who has already written to their MP. I'd really appreciate you (or anyone else) posting that here. I will send to my MP who apparently prides himself on answering every email.

Tulips this link has a good summary of points you might like to raise with your mp

www.transgendertrend.com/gender-identity-rights-of-the-child/

I'm a mn lurker who has now signed up. And thanks for all wise words on protecting women's rights and highlighting issues around gender identity. I came across transactivist stuff probably a couple of years ago and went through the disbelieving then outrage phases and now in the "over my dead body will this happen" phase. And the idea of being on twitter is good. It's where I found brilliant women discussing the issue, like Rebecca Really Cooper, Stephanie Davies-Ari, Meghan Murphy. It's so difficult to discuss. I only do with women over 50! There needs to be a proper public debate on this. All political parties here in Scotland are signed up to change law to gender identity (well, haven't checked Scottish Tories, but figure Maria Miller represents their view). Ridiculous that parties can have manifesto commitments that can't be publicly debated

"I think that it's a bit early to start writing off the gay male community as allies."

There are some gay men that can see some of the harms of the ideology. There was the "drop the T" petition a couple of years ago, which pointed out exactly what was happening to children. It was fairly well circulated, though was hammered in the gay press and most gay men dismissed it. Whilst there is pockets of gay men that disagree with the transing of kids, they are not representative of gay men as a whole. I think it is important to remember that this ideology is part of queer theory which is promoted by gay men.

I just think we need to build up a strong base first before we try and persuade those that are harder to convince. I'd suggest targeting groups that already have doubts about it first, as they will be the easiest to get support from. People like mothers of young children and adolescents, lesbians and older women, many in these categories already have serious doubts about it, but don't feel they can do anything about it. They need to be alerted that they can do something about it and be made aware of the campaign. I think after we have good numbers of them on board, then would be the time to focus on the harder to convince groups like libfems and gay men.

Is it actually a campaign against "Transextremists" rather than transactivists?

Is it actually a campaign against "Transextremists" rather than transactivists?

Is there a difference?

Another lurker here. I found this forum by accident a couple of weeks ago when I was wondering if I was alone in thinking it was wrong to encourage children to think of themselves as transgender because they did not conform to rigid sex-role stereotypes. We do need to get organised on this, because the transactivist message is the only one that most people see.

Well many people are activists campaigning vociferously for many things. It just occurred to me that what we are fighting against is an extremist ideology disguised as campaigning for liberal tolerance. Most people would be wary of extremists, fewer people wary of activists - just might help get the message across? Very new to this sort of thing and I have no experience of campaigning or PR!!! So just a thought.

Just realised the resources stUfford there is ALOT on yt also. Lots from TRA's but lots shoots themselves in the foot showing how rediculous they are (which surely ps off lgb ppl & anyone with gender dysphoria) and the likes of magdalen burns posts lots of vlogs & yt, like twitter etc, gives more suggested to view/follow/like etc. Some of mb vlogs have hundreds of likes and only the odd dislike which is comforting

Do we know exactly how many schools so far have used the CPS stuff?

Also I wondered why exactly someone's job would be at risk for tweeting - unless they're calling for violence or inciting hatred, surely being rational and making it clear that these are personal views based on scientific fact is ok? I've already been tweeting about this and I've had exchanges with Paris lees and India Willoughby (who blocked me immediately for asking a simple question) but not a lot of hate weirdly.

'Is it actually a campaign against "Transextremists" rather than transactivists?'

The current trans activist agenda is extreme; it is fundamentalist in its opposition women's rights, so as Hemlock pointed out there is no real difference.

I think it is crucial that we are clear that we reject the whole ideology of gender identity: it's a doctrine built on sexism, homophobia and a creationist-like denial of science and material reality. It's no good trying to hedge our arguments to try to prove that we aren't 'transphobic' or say that we just oppose the more irrational elements of it – the whole thing is irrational, and trans activists are demanding women's total submission to their agenda. We need to be just as resolute in resisting them, and we can't do that unless we coherently oppose the whole edifice of 'gender identity'.

As Witching put it:

There is no way around it we have to challenge the ideology and the people who use these arguments. We have to do this with the facts about biological sex and by pointing out the idea that stereotypes and feelings make someone the opposite sex is deeply misogynistic.

Yes, and I would also say that linguistic control is a key battleground in this debate. We need to resist the Orwellian restructuring of language around sexual biology and speak as plainly as we can: we can't discuss any of the issues rationally while we are referring to men as 'she' and 'transgender women' and women as 'female assigned at birth'. I know it's often difficult to do these days as many media outlets impose censorship for gender wrong-speak (Mumsnet will delete posts for 'misgendering'), but, where we can, we need to point out that transwomen are male and even (whisper it) m*n.

I've got a feeling that CPS document has been removed. I can't access it on my phone or tablet & DH has tried on his as well.

legocaltrops
I accessed about 4pm on my lap top to do my letter and it was fine.I will try it on phone

legocaltrops
yep looks like you are right the cps link is not working. Dare I hope its because theyve already had lots of angry people writing to them! Dont know whether to send letter now. What do others think?

It may look to others like we are opposing a harmless civil rights group, but this not the case. This is why I try to say the trans ideology or queer theory ideology when possible. I sometimes refer to them as queer theory adherents if they say they are trans, and queer theory believers if they are supporters. This places them in the same position as religious people, and opens their beliefs up to question.

Framing it this way encourages people who have blindly backed it to feel they have to justify why they support this new ideology. This is often effective, because once they start to try and justify it, then it becomes clear that it is based on nothing but regressive stereotypes and victorian notions of "brain sex", and the whole house of cards comes crashing down.

This is of course why its adherents accuse us of saying they don't exist, because the "identity" is created out of whole cloth. It is not based on objective facts like your actual sex, the colour of your skin, who you sleep with etc., this ideology is more akin to a religion.

WitchingHour666

Could you explain to me what queer theory is? I've asked a couple of people and got different answers.

"It's no good trying to hedge our arguments to try to prove that we aren't 'transphobic'"

I agree I think women who are going to support the campaign against transgender ideology will need to accept they will be called a "terf" and "transphobic". It needs to be explained that this is not because they actually are a radical feminist, but because they are prioritising women's rights and safety above males feelings, as that is all radical feminists are actually doing in reality.

It needs to be understood that any woman who fights for females rights, and prioritises females in their activism is going to be called names by misogynists. If a woman tries to escape this by saying "I am not like those evil terfs", it will not save her from being targeted by misogynists. In fact what usually happens is ta's think they can then persuade a woman to change her course of action, by exploiting her desire to avoid being called slurs.

legotrops
Am still able to open the cps link on my lap top

"Could you explain to me what queer theory is?"

Queer theory is an academic theory that incorporates many different things, from analysing texts, to social and political concepts. In its political form it is built on postmodernism, mainly Judith Butlers writings, as well as sexual libertarianism, and individualism. It's followers think that blurring the boundaries between categories of things is the key to equality. It is very individualistic and prioritises the chosen identity of people. It's followers do not see people as categories of people, that are oppressed by other categories of people. Here is a talk that tries to explain it, and a link to Sheila Jeffreys book on it in PDF.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=DWXHbrt3kvU

download1481.mediafire.com/ri4crg5c62vg/c18o13xluzhs81h/Unpacking+Queer+Politics+-+Sheila+Jeffreys.pdf

Thelilywhite LegoCaltrops
Which CPS doc are you having problems with? I've just accessed www.cps.gov.uk/northwest/working_with_you/hate_crime_schools_project/schools_project___lgbt_hate_crime/ and
www.cps.gov.uk/publications/docs/cps_lgbt_teacher_pack.pdf as well as

www.transgendertrend.com/cps-schools-project-the-erasure-of-sex-and-the-silencing-of-girls/ that linked to them.

I think some posters up thread asked for a template mps letters. Here is one i copied from bits of several others with a few points if my own.Not going to send and email it till monday so feel free to comment
Dear Mp
I am writing to you again regarding the review of the Gender Recognition Act, as Maria Millers bill will have its second reading in the House of Commons on 24th March.
In most instances I am happy to support the right of transgender people to live as they wish and I am aware of the challenges they face. However I am of the opinion, along with many other women, that our interests and those of girls are not being represented in the debate about transgender equality. Therefore I would like you, as my MP, to take a stance for your female constituents.
Firstly,regarding the matter of self-declaration to legally change gender. This is far removed from the current system when, if a person wishes to change their legal gender they must be over 18 and be diagnosed with gender dysphoria. They also have to have lived in their desired gender role for at least two years and intend to do so for life. Unfortunately the Committee’s report called for the removal of all three of these criteria.
It is this proposed self declaration that troubles me most ,as if this should become legally binding in law, anyone could legally become a member of the opposite sex, without the need for any form of social or medical transition. Therefore,any man could claim transgender status to gain access to sex-specific spaces and services, whether he genuinely thinks of himself as a woman or not and no matter how he dresses. This could include men who are attracted to women ( or girls), transwomen who have not had full surgery (currently about eighty percent) or men who are AGP. Questioning his motives would be classed as a hate crime under the Equalities Act 2010. Therefore self declaration will put at risk women in prisons,psychiatric wards, hospitals, womens refuges and even competitive sport.
In certain situations society obviously distinguishes between biological men and biological women for reasons of safety, dignity, privacy and fairness and so there are serious problems with biologically born men 'identifying' as women.

Redefining “sex” (a biological reality) to mean “gender identity” (a subjective feeling) makes men legally indistinguishable from women resulting in the independent legal existence of women becoming non-existent. So not only is the safety of women and girls compromised but male violence can be hidden by being attributed to women. Furthermore all kinds of discrimination against women and girls become invisible. The prison service is one area where this becomes very clear. Maria Miller’s recommendations would mean that any man convicted of rape has the right to be housed in a women’s prison just by self-identifying as a woman. Therefore, it is clear to me that these proposals place female prisoners at an intolerable level of risk. Maria Miller has denied any clash of rights but there are already numerous examples of violent males being housed in female prisons, for example Lauren Jeska and possibly Lisa Hauxwell. I have included some links at the bottom of this letter which I feel are pertinent.
My second concern is around the increasing number of children and young adults seeking treatment for gender dysphoria. This is often based simply on a preference for toys, clothes and behaviours usually associated with members of the opposite sex and which are stereotypical. I am fearful about the effect this push towards the concept of ‘gender identity’ will have on childrens and young adults mental and physical health. Particularly worrying is the prescribing of possibly dangerous puberty blockers.Indeed there is a recent upward trend in teenage girls wishing to trans.
The vulnerability of women occurs because of biology, not identity. This is why sex is a protected characteristic under the Equalities Act 2010. The implications of replacing biological sex with self-identified gender are far reaching. There must be careful consideration, including a full impact assessment before any changes are made. I am of the opinion that this has not happened. I am asking you to take these points into consideration and work to find a solution for trans-gender people that does not have a detrimental impact on the safety of women’s and girls, nor on their hard won achievements such as in sport and careers.
I hope I have been able to help you understand that women are not being transphobic when they raise concerns about these changes as Maria Miller implied, but have real and valid concerns.

Yours Sincerely
Thelilywhite
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/22/fell-runner-lauren-jeska-admits-attempted-knife-murder-of-britis/
www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul
/11/transgender-nhs-doctor-prescribing-sex-hormones-children-uk
thelibertarianrepublic.com/transgender-mma-fighter-destroys-female-opponent/
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/transgender-soldier-chloe-allen-is-first-woman-on-british-army-frontline_uk_57dd5ae6e4b028e52a10d40d
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology
www.ibtimes.co.uk/lisa-hauxwell-crimewatch-tv-appeal-trace-transgender-rapist-who-may-be-living-man-

its ok thanks roquefort i can get it on my laptop just not my phone

Thanks, I can see it again now. Don't know why but the links definitely weren't working earlier. Weird.