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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

They are watching...

83 replies

Pawpainting · 05/03/2017 19:22

And as usual spectacularly misinterpreting what we are saying. I have never seen anyone on here say what they are claiming. I can only guess it's deliberate

link

OP posts:
MissiAmphetamine · 13/03/2017 10:30

Haha, love that, helpimitchy!! Grin

And yes to PPs, about the transactivists being vile and misogynistic. They don't really want to achieve "safety" for themselves, they just want to bully and dominate women Angry

WobblyLegs5 · 13/03/2017 11:00

I read something recently disputed the sui figures often quoted for trans people- the study they use to back up their stats was of 2000+ people but only 20 odd trans people, unlike mermaids claim that it was 2000+ trans people. & all or most trans people already had other existing medical/mh conditions that increased their risk of sui.

Can't remember where I read it though.....

On another point -sympathy- I see confusion or mixing up of personal & political, or maybe individual & sociall? ? Unsure the best terms. But I have total sympathy for anyone with gender dysphoria. But oppose, agressively, the TRA's movement. That's two different things imo & I can both care about individuals experience without having to lie down & accept the movement that errodes my rights, my safety, my identity.

ArcheryAnnie · 14/03/2017 16:28

I too am totally offended by their claim that MN is smaller than NM. And also offended that they think we watch Fox News. Because that is not exactly the natural home for radical feminists, no?

Bambambini · 14/03/2017 20:45

I looked st NMs. Nothing on Transgender issues. Doesn't seem to be on the radar their at all - so slow moving unless your talking about baby names and being a sexy mummy.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/03/2017 15:28

Having read the messages sent to you MissiAmphetimine I am utterly revolted. I am so very, very sorry that you were sent such poison. I need eye bleach, and something for nausea. Talk about AGP and narcissistic rage. They attack us because they will never be us and they will never convince others that they are us. They are men - and particularly nasty stupid ones. No woman would speak to another as they do you.

Thing is, unless they hide themselves onto the dark web, their fetishism and their ugliness are "hiding" in plain sight. The trans reddit subs, for example, are easily found, easily read - and once anyone sniffs something rotten about trans activist claims, and looks them up - well then the whole thing dissolves. Because they spew it all over the internet - photos, descriptions, profiles. It's no good trying to claim that transwomen just "wanna pee" when the very unpleasant truth is out there, just a Google away. I have linked to trans reddit subs and it's a total eye opener for anyone who looks. They may be your enemies, Missi, but they are probably their own worst enemies. Just a look at the truth they tell each other about their sexual obsessions and the way they speak to women, and any sympathy washes clean away.

BeyondUnderthinking · 15/03/2017 15:34

Fox News, lol! Because a bunch of British Radfems hobviously watch a right wing American news channel!

Americocentric bunch of doughnuts Grin

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 18/03/2017 13:42

Most Americans think the Internet belongs to them, Beyond. I've come across it so many times. Even the Gender Critical reddit subs tend to assume that anyone posting in English is a fellow American.

I don't imagine anyone much watches Fox News in the UK. It's definitely not likely to appeal to feminists or anyone with socialist views. The closest I come to watching American TV is that I sometimes watch clips from John Oliver on Youtube. I feel very sorry for Americans stuck with Donald Trump as President. I would feel so ashamed if that man represented me.

BeyondUnderthinking · 18/03/2017 13:44

I didn't realise I even had it! Apparently it's channel 509 (sky), for future reference Grin

Oddsockspissmeoff · 18/03/2017 18:34

Gotta laugh at this shit .

Great, that means a cis girl I know who does medical transport is automatically a serial murder-rapist. Since she once transported a donor penis for a research hospital. She was in possession of a penis, so now she's a trans woman according to TERF logic.

www.mercatornet.com/conjugality/view/go-ahead-ban-me-but-ill-never-say-a-man-is-a-woman/18585

ChocChocPorridge · 18/03/2017 18:48

Sorry Odd? Was that a comment on that link? I couldn't see it.

I don't get what you mean?

TheBogQueen · 18/03/2017 18:52

My Open DNS blocks that first link. It doesn't like it at all saying it's a 'proxy' or something...be careful.

Oddsockspissmeoff · 18/03/2017 19:14

It's a news article about mumsnet.

A rebellion against transgenderism has broken out on the hugely popular British parenting website Mumsnet after some users were banned for “misgendering” and “transphobia” in referring to certain persons, it seems. Starting Thursday evening UK time the “I am Spartacus” thread has attracted more than 400 posts, all but a handful rejecting the idea of a "transgender woman".

Ringleader “OscarDeLaYenta” asserts:

Men cannot become women, ever. Women cannot become men, ever.

Anna Lee is a man. And I shall refer to him as he.
Ada Wells is a man. And I shall refer to him as he.
Paris Lees is a man. And I shall refer to him as he.
Alex Drummond is a man. And I shall refer to him as he.
Danielle Muscato is a man. And I shall refer to him as he.
Buck Angel is a woman. And I shall refer to her as she.

(Links added - Ed)

But most contributors to the thread appear to be female. Indeed, the central issue is about recognising biological males as women; there is little about women who want to be men.

  • Men can wear what they like and act how they like. Just don't ask me to pretend that I think they are female because they feel it because I don't.

  • I refuse to agree that transwomen are women in exactly the same way that I refuse to agree that an anorexic person is obese.

  • A person with a penis is not a woman. A penis is not female. And we should be allowed to say this.

  • Nothing a man can do can make them a woman.Nothing a woman can do can make them a man. He is a pronoun used to describe male, she a pronoun used to describe female. All of these statements are not transphobic ideology, but fact.

As for pronouns, they are rejecting the term “cis” in droves.

The push-back against Mumsnet’s PC line is fascinating. The site is very influential, with literally millions of users, and it is also very feminist. Feminists have been fighting gender identity and roles for decades. Then along comes trans ideology wanting to make “gender identity” everything. Wanting men posing as females to be included in the women’s agenda. No way, say the feminist mums.

  • As a woman with a daughter, I am horrified and terrified at the rapid demolition job being carried out on hard-won women's rights by mysogynistic men, who cannot be criticised because they have decided they are in fact women.
    And am even more horrified that I'm apparently not allowed to discuss it.

  • My 6 year old DD wears trousers and has short hair. She is not trans. She is not gender non-conforming or any of the other b…s… made up labels. She is female, a girl, and uniquely her.

  • Gender is a b..s… social construct. I wear pretty dresses and make up, and I like pink. I also do DIY, out-earn my husband and work in a male dominated environment. I am a woman with my own personality, likes and dislikes who refuses to be bound be gender expectations.

These mothers see the trend to “transition” young children as a distinct threat.

  • I don't agree in giving children hormones. Or chest binding.

  • …when I read a comment today on one of my (formerly) favourite 'bad mommy' blogs that said...'my transgender daughter will be going to kindergarten soon'... I felt a sudden urge to make like Kirk Douglas and say stop the train, stop this s...t, don't let this be inevitable. It's not … inevitable. Intelligent men and women know that THIS IS B.. S...

And fathers:

I am Basil and I am full of sorrow for the young people who will be given hormones which change their voices, body hair levels and muscle mass and have their breasts, testicles, wombs and penises surgically removed when they are too young to understand the long term effects of what they are doing. And full of disgust with the adults who have made this possible by refusing to listen to the still, small voice of reason they surely must have somewhere inside them.

Women do not want biological males to invade their privacy:

  • I have daughters and I will do everything I can to ensure that they do not inherit a society wherein men with penises who choose to call themselves women erode the right to safe, female-only spaces.

  • It should be OK for people to live how they choose. But it should also be ok for me to say that there is a fundamental biological difference between us, to say that I am a woman and you are a man and because of those innate differences I don't want to share a hospital ward, or a prison cell, or a domestic violence refuge with you. When we segregate by sex it is your genitals which make the difference, not your identity.

If you feel unsafe in male spaces because you have chosen to have a feminised appearance then that is awful, and wrong, but you need to tackle this by tackling male violence and entitlement, not by displaying that same male violence and entitlement by imposing your male body on my safe space.

  • Penises shouldn't be in women's prisons, women's shelters, rape crisis centres nor should they be forced onto lesbians.

What the whole thread amounts to – and what is explicitly stated by many -- is a declaration that biology matters. A lot. Gender is a suspect term that could undo what is generally regarded as decades of progress for women. Its believers have started mutilating children to serve its revolution. They are forcing girls and women to share facilities with men. This must be stoppped!

And it’s not religious conservatives complaining this time but readers of the Guardian and other educated Brits who, in this instance at least, are taking the body very, very seriously.

Pawpainting · 18/03/2017 20:04

*Gotta laugh at this shit .

Great, that means a cis girl I know who does medical transport is automatically a serial murder-rapist. Since she once transported a donor penis for a research hospital. She was in possession of a penis, so now she's a trans woman according to TERF logic.*

Yes, the only way they can refute our arguments is by totally misrepresenting them, and by blatantly just making shit up. The posters on that subreddit have serious problems with comprehension if they really think those things are "TERF logic". No one has said or thinks that all people in possession of a penis are automatically rapists. Same how they always say that evil TERFS want all trans people dead. The only people I've ever seen making death/rape threats and wishing people dead are trans activists.

OP posts:
DickToPhone · 18/03/2017 23:38

Gotta love their grasp of basic facts.

"Just pointing out that Mumsnet is unrelated to Netmums and is far smaller"

It's actually the other way round.

Usui101 · 19/03/2017 23:13

Not sure if anyone else has discovered this one - not only being watched but also being directly quoted here: andiepasdedeux.wordpress.com/2017/03/18/mumsnet-terfs-youre-not-real-women/

TinselTwins · 19/03/2017 23:27

real women take their transwomen gal pals shopping and to make up parties

and we're just ugly trolls because we think that that's not what doing womanhood fucking means!

TinselTwins · 19/03/2017 23:56

Real women have hearts which are pure and full of love for other people. Their hearts and their minds are open and they

Datun · 20/03/2017 00:37

Mumsnet Terf? Hold on, I thought we were a nest of vipers? Or was it harridans?

I'm losing track of the number of men who are threatened by mumsnet.

Nellooo · 20/03/2017 01:02

"You know you’re a woman – or transfeminine non-binary, like me – because you feel it in your heart."

Confused
TinselTwins · 20/03/2017 01:11

anyone who thinks that feminism or women's spaces is about having an "exclusive club* where we get to hang out with our sistas (and presumably arrange sleepovers and chat about make-up Hmm ) knows absolutely FUCK ALL about being a woman!

PencilsInSpace · 20/03/2017 01:25

Oh now be fair Tinsel, bras are important too, especially if you're a 44AAAA.

TinselTwins · 20/03/2017 01:42

So, if you we’re assigned female at birth and still identify that way now, don’t be offended, please read on.
I still remember the first one I wore – white satin with lacy cups, underwired and non-padded. It was nothing special but it felt lovely, even if it didn’t fit properly

YES because THAT'S why I wear bras too Hmm , they feel lovely, I just love to feel and stroke them. That's exactly why I wear a bra, gosh, we have SOOOO much in common…….

Klaphat · 20/03/2017 02:48

44AAAA

Approximately my size!

I recently gave up wearing bras completely. I don't know what must be wrong with me when they're just so lovely.

TinselTwins · 20/03/2017 02:54

But how do you know you're a woman Klaphat if you don't love how lovely womaney bras are in your lovely womanly heart?

Bambambini · 20/03/2017 09:33

I finally felt forced to wear a bra at 15 was a late developer with small boobs) as I didn't want to be ridiculed. Hated the restrictive feel of it and that i felt forced into it to conform. Remember being so self conscious at school, desperately hoping no one would notice. Ran upstairs crying when my brother noticed and pinged the strap. Maybe i was really a man.