Just when you thought Everyday Transactivism could no longer surprise * title edited by MNHQ*

[mirrorisnotmyfriend]

They come up with this.

First post - Why Transwomen Aren't Biologically Male.
www.facebook.com/everydayfeminism/

The comments are encouraging though, that is, the ones that haven't been deleted. Lots of people questioning and calling this out.

errol

My dads stepchildren went to a school where the girls could wear trousers but they had to be actual boys trousers

He thought it was funny as obviously the school 'won' as the vast majority of girls did not want to wear uncomfortable and unflattering clothes cut to fit completely the wrong body shape

I work in a dress shoo and there is a rumour that we will have to wear a certain range of dresses...so i will be in exactly the sane position as those girls

obviously i wont be doing that but if the rumour is correct it should make work very interesting for a while

Did the boys have to wear specifically girl's cut trousers?

If not, how did the school get away with it?

Oh forgot, schools seem to be in their own micro-climate regarding sexism and uniforms, but I won't derail.

Every now and then Datun I think "I wonder what the surgery means in reality, should I have a look?" and decide that no, it's something I definitely want to avoid. I don't need convincing that it's some kind of self-harm and I don't want the images flashing into my head whenever this kind of surgery is referred to.

I agree though that the lung-pictures-on-the-cigarette-packet approach could be useful for some blind adherents to the faith.

I wonder if schools which already had sensible uniform policy, and a generally gender critical approach (working to break down stereotypes re subject choices, careers advice etc) are seeing fewer kids declaring themselves trans than in more 'conservative' schools? afaik DD's school (girls school, had trouser option for ages, loads doing stem etc etc) isn't seeing this issue.

I reckon epidemiologists could have a field day with this.

I've said before, but a local academy has a strict uniform (it's a middle school, so from 7 I think) - trousers for boys, and kilts for girls. Makes me giggle every time and wish I was Scottish so I could legitimately complain if my boy went and wanted to wear a the kilt.

nauticant

I stopped after about 10 seconds because, honestly, it felt as though I had entered a weird place.

There's a disturbing incongruity to seeing something resembling a (strangely far too small) female organ on some bloke with massive thighs and hairy biker legs.

And the scarring... And the diagrams too. I can't remember seeing many diagrams of female internal organs, apart from, iirc, isn't there always one on a packet of Tampax? So seeing a diagram, that was clearly very unlike any other diagram was incredibly jarring. There are no internal organs. It's very difficult to explain. It just felt so alien. I then made the mistake of reading some medical PDFs and the multitude of on-going problems there are with fake vaginas. One of the most prevalent of which is a 'foul smell'.

And the question constantly circling in my head was why? Why on earth would you? Unless there is something seriously, seriously wrong with you.

Sorry if I sound a bit freaked out. Discussing 'bottom' surgery is easy, looking at it, isn't.

Well, you've done me a favour in confirming my view that I don't need to look at that stuff.

But oh! the people who are going to go through that and then realise it's not what they wanted. I wonder how long it will take before it becomes acknowledged as a scandal?

By the way, there's a Lupron article referred to on this thread (I think) that I would recommend to anyone interested in this topic. It's probably biased against the drug but it provides much food for thought.

Can people with neo-vaginas still orgasm? If not I don't see the point.

nauticant

I think it's confirmed for me that there is a highly sexual element to all this. I've seen transwomen online talk about their neo vaginas, and, from what I have seen and read, they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

If the desire to look like a woman takes you down this path, I can't see how anyone would not agree there is a mental health issue involved.

Unhinged and driven by a very unhealthy sexual obsession of some kind.

And yes, I too been reading about Lupron. It has always been dogged by complaints, but now it is being more widely used, I predict class action lawsuits on a massive scale.

The research done in America on the long-term effects of having a neovagina found the results so bad that it's no longer available under the American system. The suicide rate 10 years post op were 40 times higher than average for that age. I'll go look for some links for that.

There's another issue that never gets air time. A boy given puberty blockers will avoid all the changes that go with male puberty. One of these is penile growth. He will still have a child's penis and therefore never have the tissue required to create a neovagina. And I very much doubt that this information is being given either to the children or their parents who are going through this process.

It's beyond grim.

Oh I didn't know that Prawn. Again, it's the children who will pay the price for this madness.

Goodness, what's the point?

Here's a link to an article on the 50 year history of medical transition.

Dr Paul McHugh, an eminent American psychiatrist who started the first gender clinic gradually changed his mind about the validity of transition, remarking that transgender patients often had other serious MH issues and, more importantly, surgery did not improve their MH. Here's a summary of his views.

God. Their brains aren't going to go through all the developments that come with puberty either.
So these kids, who would probably have developed into gay or lesbian adults, are basically going to become adults with children's brains and children's genitals and there will be nothing they can do about it. But that's ok because it's affirming their choices.

So these kids, who would probably have developed into gay or lesbian adults, are basically going to become adults with children's brains and children's genitals and there will be nothing they can do about it.

Once they've been this messed-up, I'd expect their tendency to opt for surgery in the hope of salvaging some sort of solution will be greater than if they had been given time to reflect on what might be best for them.

The inevitability of much of this is breathtaking. And seemingly unstoppable in the present climate.

But Everyday Feminism thinks it's appropriate to lump these poor children in with men calling themselves gendervex and wearing eyeliner occasionally. No doubt they're all equally oppressed in the eyes of EF.

I don't know if anyone has any thoughts on the following, I will try and be coherent!

If I were to list the reasons I thought there was such a massive disconnect between people who are making laws and people on here, for instance, I would say the following about law-makers:

They are receiving their information from people like Mermaids and people with genuine gender dysphoria.

They are not social media savvy and therefore don't go on the websites that women on here link to.

They believe the trans-ideology is the same as LGB.

And, as so, see the T as a suffering minority who need their rights protected in the same way.

They strongly believe in individualism.

They're frightened of an LGBT backlash.

They are mistaking the trans-ideology as progressive and right on.

They are not connecting the dots and implications to women, either because they don't care or are just blind.

They think it is noble to be at the forefront of a movement that is seen as cool.

Because, given the quite dreadful mental and health implications and all the rights of women being discarded, I don't see why the above list is having anywhere near the influence it is having.

Is something missing? Could we be wrong?

Here's another good article by Paul McHugh. I couldn't find it but luckily another poster provided it on another thread.

Just a note of caution on linking to public discourse / witherspoon institute - they do publish some very good articles on trans, however this organisation is very right wing, anti abortion and anti gay marriage.

I'm not totally averse to joining forces with the political right on issues where they are in agreement with (proper) feminism (the other obvious one is pornography) but I think it's best done explicitly, like the Hands Across the Aisle coalition.

I'd agree with all of that Datun and add one more aspect. They believe what they're going along with will be low risk for them, there won't be a huge scandal/they won't be held responsible for it.

If they could see what might be on its way, and had any concern that they might be held accountable for it, there is no way they'd be so blasé.

transhealth.ucsf.edu/trans?page=guidelines-vaginoplasty

This was informative. DS had a friend who had the op along with quite a bit of other plastic surgery. Reading this, I can only say that the advantage is that you pass better as a woman, which is ok if that is what you really want, but I am not convinced about the long term function (or not so long term for that matter). Still, it is better than the surgery for FtT which seems to be all about cutting bits off. It all seems rather depressing.

When it comes to trans issues feminists and conservatives have a lot in common, though for different reasons. I would not like us to go down the path of American discourse where every issue is polarized, with a progressive opinion and a conservative opinion. This is why trans ideology has made such inroads into women's rights. Because if you're in support of, say, gay marriage and the BLM movement you are automatically supposed to be pro anything the trans lobby asks for. This is a real problem in the USA. Here you get more of a mix, with plenty of Tory voters holding what Americans would see as progressive views.

Sorry, that was in reply to Pencil.