Etsy -violence against women.

[shins]

www.etsy.com/ie/listing/502801323/handmade-terf-stomper-patch?ref=hp_rv

Reported this to Etsy a few weeks ago, it was on the Radfem Collective's webpage. It's still there. How can Etsy keep a product that advocates "stomping" on women? Can you imagine if instead of "terf" it had some racial epithet or "trans"? It's not the only one either, there was a "Death to Terfs" t-shirt selling a while back. When are people going to see this for what it is -misogyny and violent patriarchy under a different name?

I had a look online last year, couldn't find anything near me. There was a feminist book group but it said it was for lesbian and bi. And at the time the google search turned up lots about a candidate for the student Womens' officer at the main local uni 'making history' ... yup, Anna Lee the 'queer trans disabled lesbian woman'. however, it looks as though this person wasn't elected.

The young feminists who put MTTs front and centre are not often lesbians, from what I understand. It's a lot easier to tell other women they're transphobic when it's not you MTTs are bullying into sex.

Reilly J Dennis, a prominent MTT who appears on YouTube for Everyday fucking Feminism, is in a relationship with a heterosexual woman, so a conventional male/female pairing. However it seems he would like to be having sex with lesbians and has made a video in which he tries to shame them into it. You couldn't make this shit up.

pickled
It reached peak ridiculousness for me when ASN, the charity which provides abortion support for women in Ireland, sent out an email to funders saying they were redesigning their logo to make it something less exclusionary to the trans Community, as they had complaints about the old logo- the 'female' symbol

I cannot comprehend the mindset of an organisation which in the face of all the horrific barriers for women wanting to access safe abortion think their priority is to placate the transactivist community above y'know, helping actual women in actual crisis situations

The power these groups now wield terrifies me

I was discussing setting a group up with a local friend but I don't know how to make sure it stays focused on actual women without getting branded some kind of bigot.It might have to be an underground resistance movement

Indeed.
Perhaps you can set up a cover group, which you openly advertise, then recruit the women who still have their common sense from that group into your real feminist group, and eventually stop hosting meetings for the cover group once it has become all about trans.

Reminds me of the movie "Suffragette" where they had to be wary of traitors and so on. The good old days have returned!
Oh wait, we were actually happy those were over!

You must live very close to me, Errol.

People who think like us do exist out there, thankfully. We just don't even get the chance to speak before we're shut down, shouted down, deleted, blocked and no platformed. Very democratic...

Sparechange, I was blocked from an Irish abortion rights campaign's FB for objecting to their gender neutral pronouns and weird disclaimers about how it's not just women who need abortions. I tried to engage re private messaging, was polite and civil but no. Just banned. I was campaigning before most of them were born but apparently I need to be tossed on the ideological scrapheap along with all the other ancient crones over 40 who couldn't possibly have anything worth listening to

Prawn a friend of mine linked to one of Riley's videos about being "non binary" and I had to point out that he's a rapey creep trying to falsely claim gay identity and women's identity.

Fucking hell sparechange. That is beyond ridiculous.

All this seriously worries me. I just can't get my head round it.

Fauchelevent I found what you said about many young feminists referring to themselves as non-binary really interesting. That hadn't occurred to me. It must be pretty hard to be a young feminist right now. I certainly don't think of myself as old (I'm 33), but the trans movement was never this big when I was younger. It was certainly never on my radar.

I'm not sure what people really mean by 'non-binary' - how does it differ in practice from being 'gender critical'?

Also, the difference between non-binary and agender?

I'm not sure what people really mean by 'non-binary' - how does it differ in practice from being 'gender critical'?

Hm, in feminist activism practice, non-binaries support transactivism, so that'd be the difference there.

"Gender critical" is not an identity, it is an opinion. I can be gender critical and be a very much "feminine" appearing person, because that is how I happen to be. Being gender critical just means applying critical thinking to gender stereotypes.

"Non-binary" would, in theory, seem to require a pretty much androgynous appearance, style, hobbies, etc., to look plausible to the onlooker.

In fact, though, I think "non-binary" it is just a way out for those who aren't comfortable with conforming to gender stereotypes, but have swallowed the koolaid of genderism. It is applying a label to onself: "I do not want to be forced into either stereotype category, but I still worship the stereotypes, please don't hate me! I am a weird exception! Gender is real!"

While a gender critical feminist would say "Yeah, I have short hair and don't shave my legs, and I am a woman, because biology. That's what the facts are." Or even "Yes, I do all this work to conform to patriarchal beauty ideals, but that is not what makes me a woman, having female sex organs is what makes me a woman."

Maybe the question is more how it differs from gender non conforming. And it does, a lot.

An example of a GNC woman I know: is female, happy being female. She also identifies as gay but thats by the by. Make up, dresses, fashion, femininity does not appeal to her. She dresses for comfort and makes no real effort to appeal to the patriarchal ideal of "prettiness". Many women, gay and straight are in some way gender non conforming. It just means a woman (or man) who doesn't conform to the cultural gender norms.

Non-binary is, like the PoMo definition of woman, a free-for-all. Some, a considerable amount, are gender conforming, make up wearing, non-androgynous females. This is because the definition encapsulates anyone who doesn't "feel like their gender" which is bloody everyone who doesn't have dysphoria! So a young woman does some thinking, realises she can't at all think of any way she feels like her gender but she doesn't feel like a man. She's smart enough to know liking make up and fashion isn't what makes her a woman, but seemingly it isn't her vagina. It's a feeling she's meant to have, but doesn't.

Some are GNC men and women as well, but there's a large and growing proportion of gender conforming non-binaries. Who get very very angry if you call them she not they/xer/it because you didn't know. There are also a lot of gender conforming male non-binaries in a feminist sex discussion group I joined and now avoid.

Thanks - Maybe I did mean more, gender nonconforming, though more in the sense of being 3d human - eg a woman who happily does a STEM job in a frock. She might happen to conform to some gender norms but not others but frankly doesn't give a damn (so, if she's thought about it, gender critical).

So the whole non-binary thing is just people who've heard the 'I feel like a woman so I am one' , and totally buy into the idea that this is more important than what sex you actually are? And so the lack of that feeling means they feel compelled to relabel themselves?

fauch

There are also a lot of gender conforming male non-binaries in a feminist sex discussion group I joined and now avoid.

What was that like?

Does a gender conforming male non binary just mean a man?

vestal not necessarily, see Sam escobar
www.esquire.com/lifestyle/news/a43461/non-binary-gender-common-questions

Becca Reilly-Cooper has an awesome analysis of what non-binary actually means if you apply logical thought to it
rebeccarc.com/2016/01/06/gender-is-not-a-binary

Just found this linked off Becca RCs twitter.
everydayfeminism.com/2017/02/what-it-means-to-be-multigender/

But how is any of this necessary? There are two biological sexes. We work around that in terms of healthcare provision, safety, sporting events. The rest of it.. behaviour, presentation, hobbies, career choices.. who cares, just do what you want. That list sounds like a load of bollocks to be honest.

Its only 'necessity' is to support the position of 'transgender' (as opposed to transsexual) ideology, as far as I can see.

I must say I find this all very confusing I've been lurking around the femanist threads for awhile and I was disturbed to discover I would probably be labelled a TERF despite not holding what I would consider any radical femanist views.

I also don't really understand all these different types of gender I'm the non gender conforming woman mentioned by Erroll I work in a very masculine STEM field I'm equally happy with my hair scraped back getting my hands dirty in boots and overalls as I am tottering around the office in heels and a dress does that make me non binary to the younger generation?

I thought the goal was to move away from labels and gender stereotypes so that you know I'd just be a female with a set of preferences linked to my personality but youngsters seem to crave being put in a box.

Devi

I've just read those links and they seem to contradict each other.

By the time I came to the last one, I'd lost the will to live. Especially as it says you should absolutely use the pronoun that the person chooses, and keep asking because it can change. And continues with -you shouldn't say you don't care because it's othering.

It's like their entire existence revolves around what they identify as. I can't imagine socialising with or working with people for whom the most important thing is the insistence that you understand them, on the most profound level imaginable and you'd better stay awake because it can all change tomorrow.

Can you be "cis" if you're non-binary? Because it doesn't sound as if that would be possible, and if so it explains the attraction. Being non-binary sounds like a description that fits nearly everyone.

"Cis" is just for boring old people

erroll essentially. I interviewed a few men on masculinity a while back. One girl who read it was horrified by the "transphobia"of a guy who said the only things, for his experience, (and he was very careful not to tread on any trans lobby toes)that makes him a man is physical (ie; body, genitals). In her mind, the answer should have been some innate feeling he had. Those women who say they have it, I'm not sure how forthcoming they can be when asked what it is.

datun jarring but unsurprising. Mostly shit. It's branded as a discussion group for women to talk about sex and sexuality, which sounds positive and useful. But it's run by PoMos who would accept my male partner joining if he just said he was "non binary". So if you want to talk about womens health, sex and so on you do so in the knowledge that the very people you want to avoid could well be reading. If you want to get away from men and penises, that's fine. What you get is renamed as lady dicks, which is entirely different don't you know. Was it here that I read a lesbian was lambasted for saying there's no difference, and a trans woman sent her pictures yelling that she was stupid to not see how much softer and feminine a "lady dick" was. There's that aspect, but also the exhausting process of always apologising for any mention of vaginas and never linking it to your womanhood. Even if the fact you are a woman, and have a vagina is an inescapable fact when discussing your sexuality. So pretty useless really.

vestal more or less. But isn't that so much more boring than giving every aspect of your personality a label?

prawn nope, since non binaries don't have the woman ~feeling~. So they're not called cis. Supposedly everyone else has the ~feeling~ so they're cis. If you say you don't have the ~feeling~, you're trans in denial and must work through your internal transphobia. Obviously, no one has this ~feeling~ but it's the emperors new clothes.

"Non-binary" is the textbook example of ridiculous attention seeking special snowflakery. What's the point of telling people you are non binary? Who the fuck cares? What do they actually want? Do they expect to use whatever sex-segregated facilities take their fancy at any given time?