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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Brilliant video reponse to the horrible "lesbians need to learn to love dick" argument

116 replies

ArcheryAnnie · 08/02/2017 15:47

Just saw this video by Magdalen Berns on twitter, answering all the bollocks about lesbians needing to learn to want to date transwomen, and if they don't get over their aversion to dick then they are totally just like racists. (Spoiler alert: Magdalen Berns doesn't think so.) It really cheered me up, not just with the excellent arguments, but with the deadpan attitude.

With thanks and a hat-tip to Miranda Yardley for linking to it!

OP posts:
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 11/02/2017 14:39

The row at Newnham over the transsexual fellow was 20 years ago, so I think they were already attacking Greer at that point.

joystir59 · 11/02/2017 14:47

ArcheryAnnie Love her videos, including this one

shins · 11/02/2017 14:48

True, she talked about that. But tbh, it seemed like some kind of obscure academic infighting to me at the time, I had no idea it would become any kind of issue at all.

joystir59 · 11/02/2017 15:02

Sex is not the same thing as gender. Sex is innate biological reality- male female or intersex. AND CANNOT BE CHANGED BY SURGERY/HORMONES.

Therefore males have a penis. A penis is a male biological characteristics. Women do not and never will have penises. Lesbians are women who are sexually attracted to other women. That is why lesbians are not interested in having sex with mtt men. Lesbians don't do dick.

joystir59 · 11/02/2017 15:14

Like other people who've posted, I've had it with feminists who let this bullshite transagenda take up time and space. And supported no-platforrming of radical feminists who were never afraid to tell it how it is. Biology matters and gender is nonsense. Ditto 'Gender identity'

Elledouble · 11/02/2017 15:24

Whatever next? It's almost like women have the right to CHOOSE whether they have sex with someone with a penis.

OvariesForgotHerPassword · 11/02/2017 15:31

Ah the cotton ceiling. It's pro-rape at its core, isn't it? Women should have sex with us even if they don't want to, to make us feel better about ourselves.

I'm bisexual. I would sleep with a woman with a vagina or a man with a penis. Not a combination of the above. I want a sexual partner, not a Kinder Surprise.

Datun · 11/02/2017 17:10

I want a sexual partner, not a Kinder Surprise.

Grin

< although now I do want a Kinder Surprise>

AskBasil · 11/02/2017 17:20

I have always wondered at why Kinder Surprise is so popular.

It's really horrible chocolate

venusinscorpio · 11/02/2017 17:23

I think it's the plastic tat surprise element, rather than the chocolate, which is the reason for its popularity.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 11/02/2017 17:23

Ovaries, you made my coffee go up my nose. Grin

lazytuesday · 11/02/2017 17:46

It is a difficult question for trans people i guess. I have a friend who is a woman now but she still has her penis despite looking very much like a woman and i know that she imagines having a 'straight' boyfriend. Its hard for her because she wants to be able to accept her penis and not have surgery but also sort of wants to have surgery so she can be accepted properly as a woman by straight men. She wouldnt say this batshit stuff about it being transphobic for straight men not to want to date her though.

The thing is that there probably are some 'straight' men out there who may probably be bi and there are even some who may actually be turned on by transwomen when they think about it. However in the most part sexual orientation is not going to change. I think this is ESPECIALLY TRUE for homosexual people who have had to fight more in a sense to be accepted and so will identify very much more with their sexuality than some 'het' people might.

For example in my case id mainly identify as hetero but the thing is i did have a girlfriend once so im not totally repulsed by women sexually its just that i tend to fancy men more. So i would totally be open to dating trans people. There are lots of situations like that that give credence to people like Riley thinking all sexuality is more fluid than it appears and if they could only get people to open their minds a bit more lesbians might accept dick.
The thing is that that is not always going to happen. Some people really are gay and straight, not everyone is bi. Some people just will never be able to be aroused by certain genitalia.

VestalVirgin · 11/02/2017 18:18

The thing is that there probably are some 'straight' men out there who may probably be bi and there are even some who may actually be turned on by transwomen when they think about it.

Sure, that is a fetish that exists.

But being bi does not mean being open to dating trans people.

Hating your own body is unattractive. Being deluded about reality is unattractive. Being a believer in gender norms is unattractive - well, to a feminist, anyway.

If your friend wants to have relationships with men, presenting as feminine gay man would be the easier way to get dates. As long as the penis is still there, there's time to change their mind.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 11/02/2017 19:01

You're point about self-hatred is a good one, Vestal. I love sex and am very earthy/down to earth, and a partner who isn't at ease in their own skin just isn't ever going to appeal. Plus delusional and narcissistic people are intrinsically off-putting. I couldn't take someone who thought they could change sex seriously.

It's tough, Lazytuesday. Your friend will find it hard. I've read a number of articles by other transwomen who complain that straight men will have sex with them but not relationships. They say that they are always a "dirty secret" - that their partners will use them sexually but only be seen dating women. I think Vestal is probably right, that your friend would do better with gay men.

MercyMyJewels · 11/02/2017 19:43

I lived overseas for years, Middle East and Africa mainly. In poorer cultures you can see the patriarchy very clearly.

Many men looked on me, as a western woman, (even married) as a whore effectively. They were aware that white western women would have sex before marriage. So if we were willing to have sex with one man, we were willing to have sex with anyone, so why not them. Entitlement, in the base sense

I think the cotton ceiling argument is the same argument with a bit of gaslighting thrown in

RaisinsAndApple · 11/02/2017 20:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VestalVirgin · 11/02/2017 20:25

Personally I wouldn't want to have sex with someone who I had to actively persuade that they wanted to have sex with me. If someone doesn't want sex with me then I don't want sex with them, no matter how much I might fancy them. IMO/E it's a male trait to want that.

Yes. Or, to be fair, a rapist trait.

It is certainly not something lesbians do - showing once again that the MtT who complain about "cotton ceiling" are not women in any sense of the word, and do not even behave like women.
(I think someone, in some debate on transgenderism posted a link on how anorectic women actually move as though they were fat - the link was broken when I got there, but I suppose they'd be careful with doors, etc. that a thin person fits through without problem. I think it is very revealing that the MtT, at the very least those most vocal ones, do not at all behave like women - but we are told to believe them, while no one would believe a woman with anorexia that she's fat.)

venusinscorpio · 11/02/2017 20:31

But saying it's all about individual choice misses the point of why this is so awful. It is perfectly reasonable for a lesbian woman to not be attracted to biological men, and a straight man not to be attracted to biological men. And for a gay man not to be attracted to biological women, or a straight woman not to be attracted to biological women.

RaisinsAndApple · 11/02/2017 20:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

venusinscorpio · 11/02/2017 21:00

No, but that misses the point that it's extremely shit to say a lesbian can't reject all men as sexual partners without being considered a bigot.

Datun · 11/02/2017 21:35

Exactly. It's not about deciding on the night because of some individual trait that you find off putting.

It's about being able to have your sexual identity not called into question. Is my DH homophobic because he can categorically state that he wouldn't have sex with another man? Purely on the basis that he's straight and knows he wouldn't like gay sex? If 10 gay men lined up in front of him, he shouldn't have to scrabble around to find some other reason like they're curly haired, or mean, or not attractive to him.

Datun · 11/02/2017 21:39

It's just male entitlement. They can't get into their heads that they are being denied what they want.

And are tying themselves in knots to find a reason that they can force society to accept without making themselves look like twats.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 11/02/2017 21:43

Good point, Mercy. I only travelled in Morocco but the hassle from men put me off going again.

Venus is right. It's not about individual choice. It's about an oppressive culture.

And that culture is very pervasive if you're a young lesbian. It's beyond absurd. It's sinister.

Take Reddit. The subgroup lesbian was taken over by porn years ago. So actual lesbians created their own subgroup which got taken over by transwomen. The remaining lesbians went along with the trans invasion, telling the defiant gender rebels that they were transphobic. The lesbians who had been driven out started yet another lesbian subgroup which (you will not be surprised to hear) soon became inclusive and decided that TERFs weren't welcome. So the lesbians had to start over with yet another subgroup...

I think the poor beleaguered lesbians on Reddit are now on their 5th subgroup and have been told by the Reddit powers that be that their trans exclusionary attitude makes them a hate group.

All this just to get some lesbian only space. It's horrible. I find it infuriating and I'm not even a lesbian.

Datun · 11/02/2017 21:53

prawn

That's nothing short of persecution.

I'm not a lesbian either, but I find myself bursting with empathy for what is happening to them.

It's worse for them because they are being actively pursued. It's all about the fucking sex with these TRAs.

Fairyflaps · 11/02/2017 22:03

I was trying (and failed) the find a clip of the Simpsons episode where Patty Bouvier comes out as lesbian, and is on the point of getting married to Veronica the pro-golfer, when Marge unmasks Veronica as being male. The wedding is off.

That episode was made in 2005. Bet they wouldn't have dared write it that way today.