DD's school going co-ed - I'm really annoyed

[SomewhereOutThere]

Am I allowed to talk about a private school issue in FC? I know that can be polarising in and of itself, but my particular issue here is about something I feel strongly about as a feminist so I hope this is okay.

We heard yesterday that DD2's prep school is going fully co-ed. (Currently there are a small number of boys up to year 2, a relatively recent change which came alongside an assurance that the school would be staying single sex to 11.) It won't directly affect DD's lessons - boys are being phased in so her year group will remain all girls until she leaves in 3 years. (Though there will be younger boys in her playground which will change the atmosphere I suspect.)

But I'm annoyed that:

• There was no consultation with existing parents or (seemingly) staff, who were surprised.
• A four page booklet about the change continually refers to adding extra facilities to be able to absorb two 'genders'.
• The four page booklet also explains that staff will get extra training to refresh their prior experience/training in teaching co-ed to encompass 'the different ways in which girls and boys learn and their differing interests, strengths and weaknesses'. Makes me feel like there will be lots of the 'boys like science/girls like stories' bollocks which is bad for girls and boys.
• Most of all, in the whole 4 pages the fact that many girls learn better in an all girl environment, and are more likely to pursue STEM subjects, is not addressed! Nor is the fact that there will now be 3 co-ed prep schools in the town the school is in, an all boys school, and no all-girls school.

We chose this school back when my elder daughter was a toddler because I wanted an all girl environment. DD1 was able to be her zany self at this school - she's maths mad and that was massively encouraged, as was sport - she got into one there that she now plays at a county level. She moved on to an all girls senior school in a nearby city brimming with confidence and loves being just with girls. It makes me sad that the governors don't seem to give any weight to the fact that for over 100 years this school has offered that to girls.

Oh, and as they say themselves, they have an all time high of pupils enrolled. So they are 'doing it from a position of strength'. So I have no idea - despite the 4 pages - why they feel it necessary. Something about the needs of our future demographic after engaging consultants to research the strategic future. It must be right then, since a consultant says so. Nice to know that's what fees have been being spent on. (I say that knowing all about consultancy bullshitting to justify a high fee, since I work in a similar field myself!)

I feel like moving DD2 into the nearby city, since it is clear the new (male) chair of governors at her school doesn't believe in and support the importance of an all-girl education, which is my primary reason for paying private school fees. I've contacted the girl's schools this morning. But it'll mean a massively long journey for her on public transport, and might just be too disruptive at this stage - something the school is counting on, I suspect. Gah!

Private schools are a business and small private schools are generally quite financially vulnerable, so likely this is a business decision to increase profits and increase resilience (through growth).

FWIW a friend of mine saw her daughter's small private school fold with in a matter of days when a few more families than expected withdrew children or were late paying fees (there was basically a run on the school which was pretty ugly). I think this happens quite a lot.

I can't get my head around this mentality at all.

So because the gap between girls and boys is smaller in STEM subjects you think this is evidence that girls need to be segregated ? Basically the gap is not big enough.

If you are one of those mothers desperate for your kid to work in STEM, then I'm not sure this best way to encourage it.

If it were up to me separating kids by sex or religion or whatever would not be allowed, but I realise that my views are not shared by many.

www.singlesexschools.org/advantages-forboys.htm

Maybe we should just segregate kids based on set from the get go Hairy - that would be best for them both right ?

I find it utterly bizarre that someone who claims to want equality and fairness is in favour of separating boys and girls until they are adults.

based on sex that should say of course.

Coed much better for girls at prep and 6th form. Single sex for years 9-11

I wonder if the school is giving a different spin on their projected pupils numbers to give a positive impression to parents, when in reality they are concerned about future pupil numbers.

There must also be some truth that it's more practical in terms of school run etc for parents who have boys and girls for them to be in the same school. Is there a private boys school nearby?

I think single sex for ks2 is weird. That's when boys and girls get on really well IME.

It will deffo be financial. It happened to one near us. They put in absolutely cheap rubbish facilities for boys and attracted precisely 2 boys. I couldn't understand why they were there - no teams, no sport. It seems to have quietly died a death. The school has now dropped their fees. I expect that's the last resort.

I went to an all girls grammar and I loved it. I'm really sad my children will have to be educated co-ed so I totally understand your feelings OP.

I'm not sure 'getting on with the boys really well' is my ultimate goal for my daughter's secondary school education plifner.

Wanting equality and fairness is exactly why I think single sex schools should be available as a choice (not compulsory)

Boys get to experience secondary school without sexual harassment or implicit limitations on their learning abilities and aptitudes.
They aren't steered away from STEM subjects. They get to dominate classroom discussions.

I'd like girls to have this equal opportunity too in their adolescence.

So because the gap between girls and boys is smaller in STEM subjects you think this is evidence that girls need to be segregated ? Basically the gap is not big enough.

Girls who attend single sex senior schools on average achieve higher GCSE results than girls who attend mixed schools.
They also choose proportionally more GCSE subjects that lead to STEM careers in which females are highly under-represented.
They are also likely to earn a higher salary in mid-life than girls who attended co-ed schools.

So I chose single-sex schools for my daughters over a co-ed education, yes. It doesn't take anything away from boys. It doesn't take anything away from my own son, indeed. There are plenty of co-ed schools, which is good, they suit many individual children. But not my daughters, and the loss of a single-sex option for girls for my neighbours and friends who might want one saddens me.

All girls is much better for STEM. You remove the idea 'this is for the boys' as there are no boys.

Are there any other single sex options for you? Would you consider a move to a religious school?

Friend was crunching numbers in looking at secondaries for her girls - comparing schools in N London. She used number of girls doing physics at A Level as her proxy. Something like three times the number choose it at all-girls schools than at mixed schools, and I've heard similar numbers where we live too.

Somewhere we are choosing an all girls school at secondary for v similar reasons. Also, DD is an avowed feminist, and was very struck that both the single sex schools we saw were plastered with feminist statements, while she saw none at the co-eds.

Like I say it is your choice, and if sufficient numbers of parents want to segregate their children then that should be up to them, but it's not something I will ever agree with and since you can't segregate one sex without segregating the other as well it seems entirely self defeating.

If feminists really believed that single sex education was much better for girls then surely that is something that all girls should have, not just the ones with parents that can afford it. The logical conclusion of this is that all schools should be single sex, this is a massive step backwards and it is a real headfuck to hear it from people who claim to want equality.

I would lose my shit at this.

Both my teenagers (boy and girl) go to single sex secondary and as a result they BOTH do better than they would have in a mixed evironment, in different subjects.

The girls school have overwhelmingly better STEM results than the mixed local school. The boys do well in the core subjects but also excel at drama and music, which when I was at school (mixed) were almost entirely female choices.

I chose these schools rather than the mixed alternative for a reason. If they changed that half way through their schooling I'd be furious.

This is state sector, by the way.

I wonder if the school is giving a different spin on their projected pupils numbers to give a positive impression to parents, when in reality they are concerned about future pupil numbers.

Maybe, SpeakNoWords. But they genuinely are at an all-time high for pupil numbers. The nursery (which has always been mixed) is always at capacity. Frequently they have to turn new pupils away as various year groups are over subscribed. I think it is more than the governors have decided they want to be a bigger school. And the only way to do that in a substantial way is to attract the families who have sons to come as well, and move to a 3-4 class intake. I don't think they've given due consideration to the fact that families who just have daughter/s might leave or choose another school.

There must also be some truth that it's more practical in terms of school run etc for parents who have boys and girls for them to be in the same school. Is there a private boys school nearby?

Yes there is an all-boy school a few miles away, where most brothers go, as well as those leaving at 7, generally. Those boys who want to stay co-ed instead go to one of the 2 co-ed schools in same town. And there is are 2 more excellent boys school (one up to 13, the other to 18) a little further away again.
The only options for all-girls prep schooling will be 2 schools on the other side of the nearest city, further away than all 3 boys' schools. It's shit.

It clearly is more convenient for parents with a girl and a boy to keep them together. But lots don't because they want single sex schools for idealogical reasons - and that issue has not been addressed in the extensive material that has been released on this by the governors.

Sorry, but I think single sex schools are anachronistic in the worst sense, and private ones in particular. Private education is indefensible.

It's a business decision OP, plain and simple. They'd shut the school entirely and make crisps if it were thought to be more profitable.

I'm not sure 'getting on with the boys really well' is my ultimate goal for my daughter's secondary school education plifner.

How patronising. I did say ks2 if you don't know what that means, it's the latter primary years. Fwiw, the two all girls preps I have experience of produce very sheltered, cliquey girls. Mixed preps much better for girls and then an all girls school for year 9 and gcses, back with boys for 6th form. I think there's research somewhere that backs this up.

Are there any other single sex options for you? Would you consider a move to a religious school?

The junior schools of two top all-girls schools, on the other side of our nearest city. Very long bus journey. But I've contacted them both this morning. One of their Registrars asked:
'Are you another

If feminists really believed that single sex education was much better for girls then surely that is something that all girls should have, not just the ones with parents that can afford it. The logical conclusion of this is that all schools should be single sex, this is a massive step backwards and it is a real headfuck to hear it from people who claim to want equality.

I'm sure most don't. Or I hope not. I thought only the looniest rad fem separatists really believed gender segregation was the solution to a gendered society. Them and Tories who think schools should be set up in whatever way any random parent/governor happens to please.

They'd shut the school entirely and make crisps if it were thought to be more profitable.

They are volunteer governors though, not business owners. It is not a privately-owned independent school - I avoid those like the plague.

For your DD, rather than disrupt her if she's settled, friendships etc, I think
I'd be inclined to leave her where she is till she leaves to go to secondary school. I would want those assurances that I mentioned before, and I'd keep a eye on any possible changes to the school culture. But I can see why you're disappointed as it's not what you signed up for.

Private education is indefensible.

If you don't like private education then, yes, everything about this thread will wind you up! Sorry - I did try to warn of that at start of my OP.