DD's school going co-ed - I'm really annoyed

[SomewhereOutThere]

Am I allowed to talk about a private school issue in FC? I know that can be polarising in and of itself, but my particular issue here is about something I feel strongly about as a feminist so I hope this is okay.

We heard yesterday that DD2's prep school is going fully co-ed. (Currently there are a small number of boys up to year 2, a relatively recent change which came alongside an assurance that the school would be staying single sex to 11.) It won't directly affect DD's lessons - boys are being phased in so her year group will remain all girls until she leaves in 3 years. (Though there will be younger boys in her playground which will change the atmosphere I suspect.)

But I'm annoyed that:

• There was no consultation with existing parents or (seemingly) staff, who were surprised.
• A four page booklet about the change continually refers to adding extra facilities to be able to absorb two 'genders'.
• The four page booklet also explains that staff will get extra training to refresh their prior experience/training in teaching co-ed to encompass 'the different ways in which girls and boys learn and their differing interests, strengths and weaknesses'. Makes me feel like there will be lots of the 'boys like science/girls like stories' bollocks which is bad for girls and boys.
• Most of all, in the whole 4 pages the fact that many girls learn better in an all girl environment, and are more likely to pursue STEM subjects, is not addressed! Nor is the fact that there will now be 3 co-ed prep schools in the town the school is in, an all boys school, and no all-girls school.

We chose this school back when my elder daughter was a toddler because I wanted an all girl environment. DD1 was able to be her zany self at this school - she's maths mad and that was massively encouraged, as was sport - she got into one there that she now plays at a county level. She moved on to an all girls senior school in a nearby city brimming with confidence and loves being just with girls. It makes me sad that the governors don't seem to give any weight to the fact that for over 100 years this school has offered that to girls.

Oh, and as they say themselves, they have an all time high of pupils enrolled. So they are 'doing it from a position of strength'. So I have no idea - despite the 4 pages - why they feel it necessary. Something about the needs of our future demographic after engaging consultants to research the strategic future. It must be right then, since a consultant says so. Nice to know that's what fees have been being spent on. (I say that knowing all about consultancy bullshitting to justify a high fee, since I work in a similar field myself!)

I feel like moving DD2 into the nearby city, since it is clear the new (male) chair of governors at her school doesn't believe in and support the importance of an all-girl education, which is my primary reason for paying private school fees. I've contacted the girl's schools this morning. But it'll mean a massively long journey for her on public transport, and might just be too disruptive at this stage - something the school is counting on, I suspect. Gah!

Thanks for another bump, Querty.

FYI there is a difference between being privileged and exhibiting male privilege. I interpreted this:

Make a case for single sex schools all means, but please don't do so under the banner of feminism.

...As male privilege because you, as a male, told me - a woman discussing her daughter - what comes under the banner of feminism.

Querty - I'm enjoying the boards much more since I started filtering you.

You don't seem to have read my post. We are talking about practical realities, you seem to be back in your utopian fairyland of ideals. Changing the subject to the evils of Eton doesn't change the fact that OP no longer has a single sex girls school to send her child to.

And now I'm turning my filter back on.

OP - just back on the financial point and my earlier post on the accounts. When I said it was irresponsible to say that the school was struggling from those numbers I wasn't meaning your post. I was meaning Lass' post that starts "I think they are struggling". There is nothing in those numbers that tell you either way. You don't know what the liabilities are and when they are due. If they are unpaid staff wages then clearly they are struggling (but presumably that's not the case). If the liabilities are secured loans that are due to be repaid over the next 15 years then the fact that the current cash in the bank is less the liabilities is not important. Indeed it could be a sign of bad financial management to accumulate a lot of cash with no purpose.

Those figures tell you nothing about cash flow and income vs expenditure and you need to look at the detailed accounts to assess that.

Ah, thanks for clarifying, user. Sorry to misinterpret.

That's the issue here. Men as a class have male privilege that women don't have. This is a fundamental tenet of feminism.

FYI there is a difference between being privileged and exhibiting male privilege.

Do I not need some privilege in the first place in order to exhibit some?

And just to be clear: anything a man says in criticism of anything that a woman calls feminist is a display of male privilege and should be disregarded? Even if it is a view which concerns males as much as females? That's just great.

Men as a class have male privilege that women don't have.

Venus, genuine question, but what does that mean? I genuinely don't quite understand. Let's take a man who is homeless on the streets. Actually, let's make him homeless and disabled.

In what way is he more privileged than Sheryl Sandberg?

It's a structural oppression. Individual situations are not relevant to the class analysis of male/female relations, while these structural inequalities persist. You can't tell women that wanting their daughter to be free of sexual harassment from boys in school isn't a feminist position. It isn't for you to decide what is and isn't a feminist position. And this is why men can't be feminists.

Thanks for another bump Querty!

Yes you were born with the privilege of being male. It's why you feel entitled to attempt to hijack threads posted on feminism chat.

So is that a yes?

I suggest you do some reading. People have explained these things to you before. Just like Barack Obama has more power than you, so does Sheryl Sandberg. It doesn't mean black people are not disadvantaged by structural discrimination any more than women as a class are.

It isn't for you to decide what is and isn't a feminist position.

Who does decide then? And what criteria do they use?

And society is comprised of individual people in individual situations, so they are hardly irrelevant.

Querty232 I think wading onto a feminist board and asking (in about your 200th post) 'what is male privilege?' marks you out as an utter, crushing dumbass.

I will say however that for this particular thread to get to the sixth page with nary a mention of the privilege of the privately-schooled over the other 93% of the population - well, that seems a bit blinkered to me...

It's pointless having this conversation and it is a derail. As people have said it does come across as male privilege in action.

I said I'm not a fan of private schooling. But I didn't want my views on it to derail the thread.

Querty I, as a feminist, decide my own position. I don't need you to decide it for me. Get it?

God, I'm feeling even more frustrated at losing the all-girl school provision at this reminder of men who do more talking than listening about something they have no lived experienced of and have clearly never even read a book on. Your questions are embarrassingly basic!

Qwerty - the answer to the last question is 'no'.

Just to pick up one thing I noticed upthread I'm against single sex schools because in my view they are harmful to children, and are hotbeds of bullying where negative gendered perceptions calcify rather than get challenged

If that was the reality of the school my DD went to, we'd have pulled her out. But it wasn't, rather the reverse. Maybe some are like that - perhaps you've had some negative experience? I might well have made those assumptions, being the product of coed (one other girl in double maths, only one in chemistry and physics, luckily dad was a chemistry teacher so I got away with my nonconformity to stereotypes). My observation is the paradox that sex segregation is associated with less adherence to gender stereotypes. I wish coed schools could all work out how to do this too, because that would be better yet, I think.

*death row inmate

Argh, lunchtime rush, I was referring back to 12:48!

Querty I, as a feminist, decide my own position. I don't need you to decide it for me. Get it?

Well, indeed. We all decide our positions on everything don't we. All of us. Just like we all have bumholes. And then they they're subjected to scrutiny. You cannot credibly justify an opinion just by virtue of it being your opinion. Well, you can, but not with any credibility.

True, but a majority of black people are living in ghettoes or in prison

Fuck off to the far side of fuck, Querty. I'm not engaging with you any more.

I can decide my own position on racial equality but I wouldn't presume to say much on a Black Rights forum.

The fact that you don't agree with or understand feminism doesn't mean it's women's job to patiently explain it to you. It's fine for you not to agree. But it's just your opinion.

Maybe what you mean by male privilege is an attitude of "I'm automatically right because I'm a male". That indeed is objectionable. But the converse is to assert that you're automatically right because you're female and have called whatever you have said feminist.