DD's school going co-ed - I'm really annoyed

[SomewhereOutThere]

Am I allowed to talk about a private school issue in FC? I know that can be polarising in and of itself, but my particular issue here is about something I feel strongly about as a feminist so I hope this is okay.

We heard yesterday that DD2's prep school is going fully co-ed. (Currently there are a small number of boys up to year 2, a relatively recent change which came alongside an assurance that the school would be staying single sex to 11.) It won't directly affect DD's lessons - boys are being phased in so her year group will remain all girls until she leaves in 3 years. (Though there will be younger boys in her playground which will change the atmosphere I suspect.)

But I'm annoyed that:

• There was no consultation with existing parents or (seemingly) staff, who were surprised.
• A four page booklet about the change continually refers to adding extra facilities to be able to absorb two 'genders'.
• The four page booklet also explains that staff will get extra training to refresh their prior experience/training in teaching co-ed to encompass 'the different ways in which girls and boys learn and their differing interests, strengths and weaknesses'. Makes me feel like there will be lots of the 'boys like science/girls like stories' bollocks which is bad for girls and boys.
• Most of all, in the whole 4 pages the fact that many girls learn better in an all girl environment, and are more likely to pursue STEM subjects, is not addressed! Nor is the fact that there will now be 3 co-ed prep schools in the town the school is in, an all boys school, and no all-girls school.

We chose this school back when my elder daughter was a toddler because I wanted an all girl environment. DD1 was able to be her zany self at this school - she's maths mad and that was massively encouraged, as was sport - she got into one there that she now plays at a county level. She moved on to an all girls senior school in a nearby city brimming with confidence and loves being just with girls. It makes me sad that the governors don't seem to give any weight to the fact that for over 100 years this school has offered that to girls.

Oh, and as they say themselves, they have an all time high of pupils enrolled. So they are 'doing it from a position of strength'. So I have no idea - despite the 4 pages - why they feel it necessary. Something about the needs of our future demographic after engaging consultants to research the strategic future. It must be right then, since a consultant says so. Nice to know that's what fees have been being spent on. (I say that knowing all about consultancy bullshitting to justify a high fee, since I work in a similar field myself!)

I feel like moving DD2 into the nearby city, since it is clear the new (male) chair of governors at her school doesn't believe in and support the importance of an all-girl education, which is my primary reason for paying private school fees. I've contacted the girl's schools this morning. But it'll mean a massively long journey for her on public transport, and might just be too disruptive at this stage - something the school is counting on, I suspect. Gah!

Pear - you only need to worry about your son if you raised him to be the sort of 'man who needs to put me down to make himself feel better.'. If you think that cap may fit him then presumably you'll try to do something about it?

It appears actually MNHQ do think this is trolling so I owe them a huge apology for posting as if they don't. MNHQ. Thank you

You are made uneasy by women who look for support with other women and want to cut out abusive men from their life, pear? You hope you don't know women like this? You hope that there aren't too many of us? Why do you see that as women wanting to "beat" men rather than surviving in a world dominated by male violence? Who do you think creates this competition/hierarchy between men and women - women? Or perhaps it is men and their sexual violence? Just a thought.

I think that this goes back to the question I asked several pages ago (albeit tongue-in-cheek) - what are men afraid of when women support each other against male violence?

Yes thanks very much HQ for taking action over him.

To return from the extensive derail (and case in point of why my daughters love their all-girl environment), the more I hear from other parents, the clearer it becomes that this change is not for economic reasons, or even particularly for growth. The priority for the building plan is a new sports hall.

So it is idealogical reasons. Which means my number one reason for choosing to pay for a private education will no longer be offered by this school, on principle.
And the thing I don't give a toss about - swanky facilities - are the governors main priority.

We're off, I reckon.

Oh that's sad. Has there been a staffing change recently or something to cause this?

Some girls I knew moved from Co-ed to all girls in year 12. They found a difference just in the atmosphere of peace alone

That's interesting - at the girls school I started at, the boys and girls grammars came together for 6th form, with some lessons at each school (actually, not a brilliant idea, they were on opposite ends of town and was a good 30mins fast walk between them) - I seem to remember that the boys weren't allowed in the 6th form common room though.

As I get older, I appreciate womens spaces more (not that I have any). We need "women's clubs" like they have mens clubs, and some pubs and salons where I am are defacto men only (and I'm not even talking about the strip clubs here).

I think schools are always going to say a move like that is for ideological reason though aren't they? They're unlikely to say "we think single sex education is best for girls, but we're in financial shit and can't fill places, so we're going to have to change" So I'd have a good look at the actual finances if they're available - including numbers of the school roll and capacity. In the private sector in particular, most parents are likely to have chosen single sex education for their daughters, so they're bound to get opposition to changing. And presumably the teachers too have chosen to work in a girls' school, and may prefer that. In short, I think it's unlikely to be purely ideological, whatever they say.

I agree it's all likely to be down to finances, even if it's "we are losing candidates to schools with better sports facilities. We cant afford a new sports hall unless we get a lot more pupils. Let's get some boys in for a few years - they'll generally leave by Y2 anyway but we'll have their families' cash"

My old school had a big kerfuffle a couple years ago when a new head suggested that they just might one day consider letting boys in, perhaps on a 'diamond model' of mixed up to 11, then all-girl, then mixed in sixth form. The bit that didn't make the press was that the alternative might well be bankruptcy, though efforts to improve academics and career support and thus increase numbers are paying off atm, so the diamond model is back on the back burner, but any further collapse of sterling or UK employment...

The OP says I've now seen the fuller accounts. They're incredibly healthy. Rising every year.
I'm also a parent at the school and I also can't see that it's caused by any financial problem, at least in the short/medium term. They don't have any trouble with pupil numbers. They have record numbers at the moment and (at least if the data on the Department of Education website is right) are at capacity already. The plan to introduce boys is being phased in gradually so it won't make any difference for another 18 months and won't be fully co-ed for 5 years. They aren't changing class sizes. So it's clearly not a bid to pull new pupils in quickly as it won't actually make much, if any, difference and any difference won't be seen for several years. In fact it's more of a short-term financial risk if people leave to all-girls preps in the nearby town. There are already 2 co-ed preps within a 5 min drive so people who really want that already have that choice. Perhaps they think that long term there is greater financial stability if they are co-ed but it certainly doesn't look like a pressured financial decision.

Long term financial planning is sensible in any sector.

Lots of current and potential private school parents do like and want sports facilities etc.

This sounds like the very definition of middle class hand wringing to me - my massively privileged off spring may not be as hugely over advantaged as I'd planned and paid for, woe is me.

Imagine if all these smart successful women gave a shit about comprehensive education it could actually help the majority of women and girls in society - but of course, then your special snowflake wouldn't be getting extra legs up & we can't have that. As a left wing feminist, my contempt is strong on this one.

Like the PP who is a fellow parent here says, it really doesn't look to be financial. All the data says otherwise.
And that does make me feel differently about the school.
The new change, Devi is a new chair of governors, (male) after the retirement of a very popular female chair. Also popular head is leaving - though apparently supports this move. Governors are landing him with the shit of dealing with fall out of lack of consultation which stinks too IMO.

This sounds like the very definition of middle class hand wringing to me - my massively privileged off spring may not be as hugely over advantaged as I'd planned and paid for, woe is me

I agree. And I sent my child to a private school. Your post is a fair comment. I thought it was hugely disingenuous of the OP to make a distinction that this school is a cuddly , fluffy private school rather than one of those nasty indy ones which make money. They are all charities ; Eton, Harrow, Fettes, all charities and they all need to make money.

I can't really disagree with the merit of what you say. I'm happy to admit private education is indefensible other than I would not want a state which dictated I could not send my child to a private school.

Imagine if all these smart successful women gave a shit about comprehensive education it could actually help the majority of women and girls in society - but of course, then your special snowflake wouldn't be getting extra legs up & we can't have that. As a left wing feminist, my contempt is strong on this one

To be slightly fair - these smart, successful women are paying a good whack of tax, and not taking money from the school system by sending their kids to the state school. Yes, hugely privileged, but it's not like they're doing any less than any other person.

Personally, having experienced both grammar school, comprehensive secondary I don't think comprehensives are the way forward. Even with setting, the ability spread was huge across classes at the comprehensive - how can we be giving the kids at the top and bottom of the ability scale the education they deserve when a teacher has 30 kids, with such mixed needs to support? I went to grammar, but I have a family member with special needs, and when forced into a mainstream school he was shredded. People are different, and have different needs, and I don't think one size fits all.

At primary, good primaries exist. The school DS1 went to, within the M25, was excellent and yet under subscribed because it was only an infant school (and it only got a 'good' not an 'outstanding') - DS1 was supported, he had therapy, the teachers were good, the facilities were old, and small, but sufficient.

The school he goes to now I pay for, (but, no more than the government pays per pupil in the UK when I looked it up). But now I pay out of pocket for therapy, for lunches, for books and equipment, his teachers are lovely, the facilities are fine, but no better than the UK state school. UK state primary schools are already pretty damn fantastic (I know with exceptions)

People who fundamentally disagree with private schooling giving me a kicking is understandable but you joining in when you sent your own children to a private school, lass, is hypocritical IMO.

I think you need to get a grip, in the nicest possible way. Either move your dcs, or embrace the change. Mithering on isn't going to help anyone, least of all your dds.

This sounds like the very definition of middle class hand wringing to me

Really whattheseihakasmean? The OP is annoyed because a fundamental aspect of the school that she chose is being changed and there was no opportunity to be consulted. Surely that's an issue that transcends the private/state divide. Before we moved to this school, my children were at a state school that was in special measures for almost all of the time that we were there. Because of that it was forced to become an academy and the parents had no say in that decision or the kind of academy it became. Now that was mainly because of govt policy not the school's choice but the system seemed contemptuous of the parents. Would you support the angry parents in that situation? If so, why does the fact that the OP is paying make any difference?

As an aside we stuck out the special measures school for years on the kind of ideological grounds you mention and as far as I can tell it made sod all difference to the school despite us (and lots of other parents) taking a huge amount of time and effort to get involved. The problems were far more deep rooted.

I think flaming OP is unkind - she is expressing concern about changes in her DD's school affecting her DD and the other DC attending,it's understandable to get upset about unexpected and (in OP's view) negative changes.

Private schools changing hands, closing down etc is difficult for the families involved. You might not agree with private education, but the DC concerned didn't choose their education and to label DC "special snowflakes" is rude and uneccessary.

The state used to give people the chance to go to single sex schools. It is a shame they are difficult to find now for thoses who think it would suit their child more.

I feel angry when something is removed from the school system, then subsequently becomes apparently elitist when people have to probably pay for it to have access to it.

This can also apply to something as simple as learning to write with a fountain pen, or learning tables/spelling by rote, or playing sports, reading more difficult texts, spending enough time on maths and reading and writing.

Jorvik I'm happy to accept that grip, but in my defence at the 'mithering' charge - this was only announced 2 days ago. Everyone is walking round rather shell shocked and I'm one of the few who has already filled out an application for a girls' school.

People who fundamentally disagree with private schooling giving me a kicking is understandable but you joining in when you sent your own children to a private school, lass, is hypocritical IMO

The hypocrisy would be if I were asking for sympathy for something I didn't like about my son's school. If you want to opt out of the state system , that's fine. Your complaint is with the school- I can't see why this is a general or feminist concern.

Surely it is about the trend for making girls' schools co-ed, (it happens to state and independent schools), when she believes some girls need the chance to be educated without boys around to hamper them. So that is a feminist concern in my opinion..

I never claimed it as a general or feminist concern, lass. It is a concern for me that I wanted to discuss with other feminists. Many have been kind enough to put aside any issues about private schooling and discuss it with me. You don't want to discuss it so I fail to see why you're still posting on this thread, frankly.

Thanks Kind. Yes I do believe that there is at least an element of this being a feminist issue, or I wouldn't have put it in feminist chat. But I know that not all feminists would necessarily agree with that.