DD's school going co-ed - I'm really annoyed

[SomewhereOutThere]

Am I allowed to talk about a private school issue in FC? I know that can be polarising in and of itself, but my particular issue here is about something I feel strongly about as a feminist so I hope this is okay.

We heard yesterday that DD2's prep school is going fully co-ed. (Currently there are a small number of boys up to year 2, a relatively recent change which came alongside an assurance that the school would be staying single sex to 11.) It won't directly affect DD's lessons - boys are being phased in so her year group will remain all girls until she leaves in 3 years. (Though there will be younger boys in her playground which will change the atmosphere I suspect.)

But I'm annoyed that:

• There was no consultation with existing parents or (seemingly) staff, who were surprised.
• A four page booklet about the change continually refers to adding extra facilities to be able to absorb two 'genders'.
• The four page booklet also explains that staff will get extra training to refresh their prior experience/training in teaching co-ed to encompass 'the different ways in which girls and boys learn and their differing interests, strengths and weaknesses'. Makes me feel like there will be lots of the 'boys like science/girls like stories' bollocks which is bad for girls and boys.
• Most of all, in the whole 4 pages the fact that many girls learn better in an all girl environment, and are more likely to pursue STEM subjects, is not addressed! Nor is the fact that there will now be 3 co-ed prep schools in the town the school is in, an all boys school, and no all-girls school.

We chose this school back when my elder daughter was a toddler because I wanted an all girl environment. DD1 was able to be her zany self at this school - she's maths mad and that was massively encouraged, as was sport - she got into one there that she now plays at a county level. She moved on to an all girls senior school in a nearby city brimming with confidence and loves being just with girls. It makes me sad that the governors don't seem to give any weight to the fact that for over 100 years this school has offered that to girls.

Oh, and as they say themselves, they have an all time high of pupils enrolled. So they are 'doing it from a position of strength'. So I have no idea - despite the 4 pages - why they feel it necessary. Something about the needs of our future demographic after engaging consultants to research the strategic future. It must be right then, since a consultant says so. Nice to know that's what fees have been being spent on. (I say that knowing all about consultancy bullshitting to justify a high fee, since I work in a similar field myself!)

I feel like moving DD2 into the nearby city, since it is clear the new (male) chair of governors at her school doesn't believe in and support the importance of an all-girl education, which is my primary reason for paying private school fees. I've contacted the girl's schools this morning. But it'll mean a massively long journey for her on public transport, and might just be too disruptive at this stage - something the school is counting on, I suspect. Gah!

grow your responses indicate a lack of belief even though you're not stating it outright. Perhaps it wasn't happening at your school and your wife's school. Perhaps it was happening to other groups of students and you weren't aware of it. Does that mean we're all lying to make an evil feminist point?

Seriously growapear? She was probably in socks not tights and sitting under a desk.

A large number of women have experienced an attack of this kind. I know when I did (not at school, as it happens, but on public transport at school age) I froze and didn't cry out.

Growapear, I got sexually bullied at school by boys. Worse things happened later but I feel the bullying id suffered made me less able to deal with it.

I defer to my wife on the female experience, and tbh when I told her that it says here that our kids can pretty much expect to be molested in a co ed high school by boys who can do so with impunity she thinks it's crazy. So consider me as listening but not yet willing to believe that this will happen to my kids.

No one is saying it will happen to your daughter. Look at the stats in the summary that I linked to, none of them are 100%. People are saying it happens, and it happens to far too many people. Do you disagree with that?

Because let's face it no responsible parent aware that this is pretty much inevitable and with the financial means to prevent it would not do so.

Daughters speak so presumably that makes it a lot more likely....

Well I get the feeling you disbelief the content of the recent report I mentioned and the personal accounts of people here, so perhaps you're not actually that worried.

Why should he be worried?? Most people don't have any choice where to send their dds. It's quite unpleasant to insist someone feels anxious about something they have no control over. If it's any consolation to anyone I think attitudes have changed hugely. Sexual assault in schools is taken very seriously.

If it's taken seriously then why are a third of girls on the receiving end of a sexual assault during their school career, Plif?

Because they might happen. That's not to say they are not dealt with. I actually don't believe a third are. Sorry.

It's quite unpleasant to imply people are lying when they say they've experienced harassment or assault, Plif. Not you, growapear.

Why is that so unbelievable? Most women I know have suffered some form of sexual assault so it seems perfectly reasonable to me.

It's got my thinking this thread. That kind of sexual harassment certainly was common when I was at school, probably peaking around age 12 ish. Definitely didn't happen by sixth form age. I can recall bra strap pinging (which we regarded at painful more than sexual), hands on thighs hidden from view by a desk, and occasional playground grouping, though at an age when physical play was still common (but post puberty - is 11/12 ish). It wasn't enjoyable, but tbh the bullying I got from some of the girls was far more damaging, so I'm not sure that fear of that kind of behaviour would be the overriding factor in choosing a school for my DD. .

I must speak with DD and ask her whether these sorts of things go on in her school. She's pretty open with me about most things. Maybe times have changed?

Well I get the feeling you disbelief the content of the recent report I mentioned and the personal accounts of people here, so perhaps you're not actually that worried.

Why would I not be worried that my daughters are likely to be sexually assaulted at high school - which is what you are all telling me. Not only that, but when the teachers will do fuck all about it. If women up and down the country all believed this to be the case, in fact - knew it was the case, then it does indeed baffle me that many more of them do not campaign for segregated education and send their kids to single sex schools. In my area these are also typically co ed now - which agains this back drop is, and the fact my wife seems pretty unconcerned about it, I'm sure you will grant me, counter intuitive.

So do you think the report is incorrect, Grow? If you do, what aspects of it cause you not to give it any credence?

I'm not sure why you think all women in the country know about this report and are aware of the figures. It only was reported on in the Autumn of 2016. Plus plenty of people will also ascribe to the "boys will be boys", "it's just banter" attitude that minimizes or disbelieves the reported evidence. Or just not believe it because they think it's misandrist feminist propaganda.

Where did i say that I did not believe it ? And presumably since you do believe it then you surely must support segregation until this can be sorted out ? If I believe that my daughters are likely to be sexually assaulted, and in some cases apparently routinely - to the extreme detriment of their future mental health, why would I not also want this ?

Since this is orthogonal to my own experience of high school and apparently that of wifes and since it pretty much means what I said earlier - do you see why i might have trouble accepting it ?

Or just not believe it because they think it's misandrist feminist propaganda.

Do you think this is what my wife must think ?

I support the actions the report recommends, preferably done with a great sense of urgency. I don't support enforced segregation and I'm not opposed to parents having the choice of single sex if they prefer that for their child.

I'd also like more research done to find out if it's evenly distributed or if it's better in some LAs than others. I'd like schools where this is rare to lead on how to address it.

Tbh, I don't actually know what you think as you're asking questions rather than giving your own thoughts.

I don't know why you think women would be up in arms about the abuse of girls if it were true that er, male abuse of girls and women is widespread.

You must be aware that for thousands of years, male abuse of women and girls was not just widespread, it was enshrined in law. Women had different punishments for crimes than men, women earned less for the same job (and still do), women were not allowed out by themselves because men would attack them if they were alone (and still do in many countries).

And yet women are not in a perpetual state of revolution against men. As Andrea Dworkin said, in spite of there being no shortage of sharp knives in our kitchens, we haven't risen up and stabbed all the men. Why is it so surprising that we have learned to accept an incredible level of shit as part of our normal lives? Even talking about this stuff, gets us labelled delusional manhaters in some quarters.

I think we all make decisions and assumptions based on our own experience. I'll send my youngest dd to a mixed school as if it came to it, I'd rather she had her bra strap pinged by an idiot who got suspended for it, than watched a girl made to drink piss by a bullying older girl who got away with her behaviour unchallenged!

Yes Plif and my issues is that this school is taking the decision to attend an all-girl environment away from current pupils without even a consultation with staff, parents or the pupils themselves.

Thanks to a kind PM linking to the info I've now seen the fuller accounts. They're incredibly healthy. Rising every year. Expenditure less than income.
Which means this is idealogical. Rats.

When it comes to our own children I think most people look at and visit the actual schools they have a choice of, and make the best choice they can out of those. For secondary school I will have the choice of single sex state secondary or a mixed secondary for my DSs, or a different approach if necessary like home ed or a small possibility of private school. I'm undecided as yet as it's very far away and who knows how things may have changed by then, or what my DSs may need.

"If women up and down the country all believed this to be the case, in fact - knew it was the case, then it does indeed baffle me that many more of them do not campaign for segregated education and send their kids to single sex schools. "

Now you've read the report, is that what you plan to do, Pear?

Well, it's not just up to me is it, my wife doesn't seem to think the local high school is a hotbed of misogyny and as I say - my own experience of high school although some time ago, was not at all like described here. As noted being called a bitch is in my opinion no worse than being called a prick, wanker or dick etc and if this counts as sexual harassment I'm surprised.

What would you advise Helen ? Should I put my foot down and tell my wife "some women on the internet with dubious views about men are saying it's a fucking disaster being female in 2017, so lets shell out for the nearest all girls school?"