British 'man' becomes pregnant

[slithytove]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/first-british-man-reveal-hes-9582789

Sorry, it's a mirror link

I don't usually post about this stuff, but it's really annoyed me this time.

Now 'men' can get pregnant? So 'men' will need maternity leave, 'men' will need maternity services, probably somehow different to women's.

Is it just me or does the fact they are calling this person a man instead of a transman, allow men (people born as men) to take even more from women under the trans rights umbrella?

Who would it hurt to call this pregnant person a transman?

I guess we should be grateful this person was born as a woman and is therefore socialised to not put themselves first.

You're saying that because women do the reproductive labour they have a better understanding of children's needs.

No I'm not. Yet again you fail to read and or understand what I have written. As a consequence the rest of your post is a strawman.

Am I going to have to post the definition of "value", "work", "pregnancy" and "childbirth"?

Why are you so keen to misrepresent what I say? I have already asked you to stop doing it. Did you fail to read that properly too?

I'm finding your arguing against things I haven't said extremely tedious.

Going back to OP:

Woman Who Would Rather Be A Man Gets Pregnant Like Women Have Often Done Since The Dawn Of Time

... but I guess that doesn't make as surprising a headline.

I'm getting very tired of Qwerty misunderstanding what other posters have said too, Beachcomber. I didn't have any problem understanding what you wrote. We seem to be spending more time clarifying our posts and explaining basic feminism than is reasonable or should be necessary on a feminist board.

Why is it a headline at all though, Cote? Twenty years ago *she'd have been considered mentally ill and forced strongly advised to have psychiatric treatment; not feted in the media with this ridiculous non story.

• Awaits deletion for calling a spade a spade othering...

Yes, exactly, Flogging.

It's a headline because of us right here right now. Discussing this to death. Surely that is obvious.

It's a headline because trans activists have been shoving this stuff down people's throats until the 'a trans woman is a woman, a trans woman has always been a woman, a trans woman has never benefitted from male privilege' became the only acceptable viewpoint. It's a tiny proportion of the population who seemingly have no problem being heard and don't care who they step on.

I'm not fussed about the headline. It's click bait, the modern equivalent of a freakshow, except that in this case the supposed freak is no freak, just a woman wearing the equivalent of a false beard.

What bothers me is the blurring of facts, particularly when it comes to crime. Maternity services will, I'm guessing, not be reduced because a few transmen have babies. However the number of transwomen who have been jailed for violent and sex crime is easily enough to distort figures, giving a picture of an alarming rise among women offenders that is entirely false.

The other angle that infuriates me is the headlines we keep seeing about. "first woman to..." when it isn't a woman, it's a bloke.

I agree Prawn; I was just responding to Jaxing about the headline.

Thread on this issue in AIBU is going down the obvious route, sigh.

I think it is a headline because it is a big and blatant "fuck you" to women.

And that's where the success and popularity of transgender ideology lies - in that it is a big "fuck you" to women.

I find this sort of thing more sinister than just "click-bait" although of course it is that too.

Just because women understand the labour in creating a product doesn't mean they have an inherent desire to carry out the maintenance or development of that product.

You don't have to be able to drive a car to work in a car factory.

Sorry that was in agreement with Beachcomber not arguing against.

I repeat I am talking about the work/investment/time/energy/risk involvement in pregnancy and childbirth

I've only been pregnant once. What you have written above feels completely alien to my experience so possibly that is why I am failing to get your point.

Yes only women get pregnant but my pregnancy really did not feel like the big deal you describe. Once the baby was here childcare was not my sole responsibility.

Just because women understand the labour in creating a product doesn't mean they have an inherent desire to carry out the maintenance or development of that product.

Exactly batteries.

I had moments in both pregnancies where I was very unwell and at risk. It did certainly crystallise for me that it was definitely me that was taking that risk on alone.

I think my DP values the work of bearing children as much as I do, he is capable of seeing things from my POV and can understand he is one step removed from it compared to me. I can see though that it is possible for men generally to be less thoughtful and not really be aware of this, as it doesn't directly affect them.

Ok Lass so your personal experience is that pregnancy and childbirth were no big deal and you imply that you do not relate to the idea that pregnancy and childbirth involve an investment of energy, time, risk, etc on the part of a woman.

But it is common knowledge that millions of women are negatively affected by pregnancy and childbirth and huge numbers die:

Having a baby should be a time of great joy and hope. But every year across the world 287,000 women die in pregnancy and childbirth*. That’s one mother dying every 2 minutes, 800 each day. Another 7-10 million women and girls suffer severe or long lasting illnesses caused by complications in pregnancy and childbirth.

The risks are massively lower for women with access to good diets and healthcare. But these women are still at risk from a whole host of health problems, from domestic violence, from discrimination in the workplace, loss of independence, birth trauma, etc. All women with children spend 9 months (on average) per child sharing their body, energy, food, health, etc with another human being. For most of us childbirth is no walk in the park and involves courage, a great deal of energy and generally a great deal of pain. Sometimes it involves being cut or operated on. Sometimes it leaves lasting damage. I think women's bodies and energy are precious and I do think these things are a big deal.

Forgot to link to where quote on risks came from www.maternityworldwide.org/the-issues/

In my experience, women who have had easy pregnancies are the worst at undervaluing the risk and energy involved in undertaking pregnancy and birth.

I am reminded of the bit in Wild Swans where her mother was forced to undertake a long hike by a woman who had been pregnant and given birth in the midst of guerilla fighting, who was very much of the stop moaning and get on with it, other things are harder / more important mindset.

I didn't really have any problems in pregnancy and childbirth but I have friends who had to have emergency c sections and luckily everyone involved survived. I can't imagine how twatty they'd think I was if I responded by saying 'well I don't really recognise that description. I was fine

It's the universal experience thing tho'. Beachcomber is asserting this as if it were to apply to all women. I would not dismiss any one's difficult pregnancy but I certainly don't feel part of great sisterhood of women just because I've been pregnant or that it was the defining thing in my life.

I do however fail to understand how anyone squares being pregnant and saying they are a man.

I'm not asserting anything Lass. I said "I think...." and "I may be wrong...."

and then said that I reckoned that women as the class that does the work of having babies, value that work and value life as they have invested time and energy in the producing of it.

I said nothing about sisterhood or motherhood defining women.

slithytove There are ways to become a parent to your genetic child which don't involve pregnancy as we all know.

To reject all of your woman body parts and reproductive system to the extent you plan massive invasive surgery is a big step. It just sits oddly with me that they can use that system first.

Finding a surrogate to host the pregnancy for you is not that easy. Plus you'd have to worry about whether they'll change their mind, and other issues.

If someone has a powerful urge to procreate it isn't that weird to me that they would make use of the parts they have if that is possibly the only practical way they can, whether they wanted those parts or not.

I guess we should be grateful this person was born as a woman and is therefore socialised to not put themselves first.

Or maybe they are an actual real person, and therefore not just a walking stereotype of their gender :)

Lass, I've not had personal medical sequela post birth, but that doesn't mean that I can't fail to understand the trauma of giving birth to a child who is disabled, say or to go home to someone who has become physically violent during pregnancy.

Of course pregnancy makes women vulnerable. It is the mark of an excellent and civilised country that recognises this. This is a country that cares for its future.

It is fact that pregnancy requires a considerable input of energy, reorganisation of organs, and significant hormone changes. I find it odd to describe a no physical complications, psychologically easy pregnancy as something that wasn't much work.

It is work making something from nothing.

If someone chooses to undervalue the work their body did because they feel it didn't impact them much that's their choice, obviously. But I would be surprised if the majority of women who have experienced pregnancy would be blasé about the time and effort required to grow a foetus.

I mean... the placenta alone. Even if you didn't grow a foetus the placenta is the size of an organ.

Not particularly relevant, but no my pregnancy wasn't work. It's not a case of "undervaluing my body". That to me seems a very strange idea.It was serving a purpose I wanted it to.

I'd done before and have done since work which was far more physically and mentally exhausting than being pregnant.