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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

British 'man' becomes pregnant

511 replies

slithytove · 08/01/2017 10:50

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/first-british-man-reveal-hes-9582789

Sorry, it's a mirror link

I don't usually post about this stuff, but it's really annoyed me this time.

Now 'men' can get pregnant? So 'men' will need maternity leave, 'men' will need maternity services, probably somehow different to women's.

Is it just me or does the fact they are calling this person a man instead of a transman, allow men (people born as men) to take even more from women under the trans rights umbrella?

Who would it hurt to call this pregnant person a transman?

I guess we should be grateful this person was born as a woman and is therefore socialised to not put themselves first.

OP posts:
Prawnofthepatriarchy · 08/01/2017 18:27

Have just seen your post, Agent, and it makes me angry too. Bloody typical of Everyday Feminism though. I'm banned there for not following the party line on transgenderism and I have to say it's no loss.

I do however grieve for all those young women thinking that what they read there is feminism, when it totally isn't m

qwerty232 · 08/01/2017 18:31

Queen I would say a lot of those instincts are deeply repressed in women - to the point that they don't even know they're there. There is no cultural language for a tyrannical female sexuality. There has never been any space for it to develop because women have always lacked power. But, if you read Nancy Friday's work you will find female sexual fantasises that are as dark and deviant as anything you will find in a man's head.

There is no denying that most sexual violence is committed by men, that men are raised to feel entitled to female bodies, and that women are raised to think they are there for men to use. The question is, will it be so in 500 years? And if women do gain sexual power, how will that be different to male sexual power? Or will it be different at all? Only time will tell.

venusinscorpio · 08/01/2017 18:53

Qwerty, do you really not see the distinction between "different" and "different value"? It's quite clear to me.

It seems you want to indulge in thought experiments rather than examine how the world actually is.

qwerty232 · 08/01/2017 19:14

I don't see to Venus, no. Genuinely.

qwerty232 · 08/01/2017 19:14

What is the difference?

venusinscorpio · 08/01/2017 19:16

Different - there is a difference. It could be anything but there is no implicit value judgement.

Different value - one is valued more highly than the other. One is considered superior and the other inferior.

qwerty232 · 08/01/2017 19:20

Yes I understand that. But if something or someone has a different value then it is different. In this case, if women have a different value then they are different. They differ, value-wise.

Seachangeshell · 08/01/2017 19:22

Last time I looked at this thread a few hours ago it was about someone getting pregnant. What the hell happened?

venusinscorpio · 08/01/2017 19:26

That wasn't what was said. And I think you know that qwerty. I'm not sure you're arguing in good faith now.

qwerty232 · 08/01/2017 20:07

What was said? I honestly can't remember. Someone said women have a 'different value' but aren't 'different' and I suggested that's tautological. This is just silly semantics.

venusinscorpio · 08/01/2017 20:14

You're at best a bit dim and not really paying attention then.

venusinscorpio · 08/01/2017 20:16

But given how wordy your posts are, I think you're being deliberately disingenuous.

qwerty232 · 08/01/2017 20:26

Does it matter? I was just querying a point. I thought the poster said that. If you can find it, quote it back to me and show I'm wrong I'll admit it. I can't be bothered to go back and look.

Twogoats · 08/01/2017 20:28

Isn't this story just a distractor from the NHS crisis though?

Tbf, it's working!

AgentCooper · 08/01/2017 20:34

That article has really made me reconsider Everyday Feminism prawn. I never looked at it that regularly, though I remember thinking some of their stuff on intersectionality (mainly vis-a-vis women of colour) was good. But the whole idea of it being vital to acknowledge that 'not everyone who needs an abortion is female' - I couldn't hack that. No minimising of anyone's pain intended but it just smacked of women's rights being gradually whittled even further away until the social conditions and bodies that we live in are seen as irrelevant. Which is very handy for some people who want us to shut up.

The Guardian ran a piece as well saying Carrie Fisher's femaleness wasn't important in remembering her, probably a well intentioned stab at saying she was more than that gold bikini but fuck me, she was a woman with bipolar disorder who had expectations heaped on her that her older male co-stars didn't, whose ability to raise a child while negotiating mental health would have been subject to so much scrutiny, who was told in her 50s to lose weight for the Star Wars sequel. It just struck me as a perfect example of utter complacency when it comes to what women still have to face every day.

venusinscorpio · 08/01/2017 20:36

Qwerty, I explained to you why I originally disagreed with your interpretation of Beachcomber's point about women being valued differently to men. The onus is on you to say why you think that is wrong. If you can't be arsed to pay attention or keep up, I can't be arsed to discuss it with you. Which is fine by me. But I'm not sure what exactly you're doing here.

Kennington · 08/01/2017 20:42

A male cannot get pregnant.
It is a perfect example of post truth unscientific reporting that has taken over some areas of the media.
It does trans people a huge disservice as the headline is sniggering at them. Everyone knows the information is factually incorrect and a nonsense.

venusinscorpio · 08/01/2017 20:45

Totally agree that the newspaper is taking the piss. It's click bait.

qwerty232 · 08/01/2017 21:03

What are we even arguing about Venus? Beachcomber said that women having a 'different value' to men is different from them being 'different' to men. That doesn't make any sense to me. I can't pretend it does.

If Beachcomber didn't in fact say that and I've completely misread what s/he said then the onus is on you to explain how that is the case. And if you can do that then I will admit that I'm wrong. Honestly. Otherwise this exchange will go round in meaningless circles.

JaxingJump · 08/01/2017 21:13

It doesn't bother me. If I heard the headline I'd probably say what? But then if someone said it was a man who was biologically female I'd say oh ok. That not so strange then. It's unusual for sure but I don't find it a massive leap that although this person will carry and give birth to a child they still feel like a man and ultimately a father. I don't have an issue with that.

conserveisposhforjam · 08/01/2017 21:16

**Different - there is a difference. It could be anything but there is no implicit value judgement.

Different value - one is valued more highly than the other. One is considered superior and the other inferior.**

It was explained here really well I thought. Maybe reread a few times and try to understand a. the words and b. the order they are in?

Original poster
slithytove · 08/01/2017 21:24

twogoats it pisses me off even more when I read that gender reassignment costs £29k, when I don't believe it's needed in the majority of cases! Certainly not where someone is happy to use their body to its full biological possibilities.

OP posts:
Original poster
slithytove · 08/01/2017 21:26

This person isn't a man, they are a transman.

OP posts:
Original poster
slithytove · 08/01/2017 21:27

Otherwise known as a woman who identifies as a man.

Still dont get the identity thing though. Surely it can only be body dysmorphia I.e. They hate their breasts and genitals and feel the physical lack of a penis.

OP posts:
qwerty232 · 08/01/2017 21:27

Yes I know there is a difference between 'different' and something/someone having a 'different' specific property. Someone BEING different can indeed mean different in in any way while them having HAVING a different property is a specification of how they are different.

But Becacomber said men and women are NOT different but have a different value. That is a contradiction. If they have a 'different value' then they are different. It is their different value that makes them...different.

You wouldn't say of two cups that they have different colours but are not different. That would not make sense.