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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Do you think men can be feminists?

999 replies

AVirginLitTheCandle · 01/01/2017 23:39

This may sound like a stupid question but do you think men can be feminists?

I've always thought they can be but I perhaps some radical feminists will disagree with me.

OP posts:
HilbertRiddle · 03/01/2017 13:12

Feminism is globally applicable, Hilbert.

Yes, exactly my point, and you will find many males (and women for that matter I suppose) dismiss feminism because of just that. They will say in the UK there is no more need for it, you need it in places like the ME. And let's be real for a moment here, how many self-proclaimed feminists do just that?

BertrandRussell · 03/01/2017 13:14

"To all those saying men can't be feminists because they don't "get it". That's a sloppy line of argumentation, leaves men open to say women don't "get it" what it's like to be a man (e.g. "look at suicide statistics, predominantly men, you women don't get it, we have it so hard")"

I's not that they don't "get it". It's that they don't/can't live it.

And I agree that suicide statistics need to be looked at. But male suicide rates are not feminism's fault.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 03/01/2017 13:14

So because they haven't successfully and brutally stamped women's resistance movements out, they must have handed women everything on a plate out of the goodness of their hearts?

Why don't you tell us why you think men did it then ?

BertrandRussell · 03/01/2017 13:18

"My argument was that individual men have no control over other men they have never met before"

No of course they haven't. But each individual man could make feminist choices. And could be public about it. And challenge other men who don't. Like, for example, actually saying why they don't want to go to the stag do at the lap dancing club rather than making an excuse. But generally they don't.

TheSparrowhawk · 03/01/2017 13:18

Women first wanted to vote when voting was invented. Do you know how long ago that was girl? When did women actually get a vote?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 03/01/2017 13:19

Ah so you don't want to answer the question (seeing as you've avoided answering it twice). I find it really bizarre that you're arguing about who can and can't be feminists when you're so anti-feminist yourself. It's almost as if you're just doing it to be contrary

Who do think you are?

You were extremely rude yesterday. I did not answer a point you made yesterday because frankly it made no sense.

You told me yesterday I was tedious and you knew all about me but are now demanding I engage with you.

I am very anti the sort of dictatorial , narrow minded "I am right, everyone else is wrong" feminism which you seem to adhere to.

derxa · 03/01/2017 13:19

Why is it that you think women should come up with the solutions, derxa, given that it's men who have created the problems? But if all men are so privileged and unenlightened then for all of them there are no problems. In your world things will never change. And yet there have been great changes in the last 100 years for women in this country at least. How did this happen? If these all powerful men allowed these changes to happen why was that?

0phelia · 03/01/2017 13:20

Girlwith
Why did they change it then?

Err one word.
Feminism.

Changing their behaviour did not make them feminist though did it.

HilbertRiddle · 03/01/2017 13:20

TheSparrowhawk "Of course women don't get what it's like to be a man! Why would they? They may understand intellectually the problems men face, but they can't know what it's like to actually be a man."

And you don't see a problem with this line of arguing?

0phelia · 03/01/2017 13:21

Derxa. Why was that?

Umm feminism perhaps.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 03/01/2017 13:22

Bertrand

So what are you going to do about that then ? Only a small percentage of women even believe in feminism these days it seems, but you expect that all men should behave in a way that you deem acceptable. There are many women who do not make "feminist choices" either. Also a few middle class liberals deciding that they don't want to go to bottoms up with their mates once in a blue moon is hardly going to lead to a reduction in wife beating or rape IMO.

TheSparrowhawk · 03/01/2017 13:22

'In your world things will never change. And yet there have been great changes in the last 100 years for women in this country at least. How did this happen? If these all powerful men allowed these changes to happen why was that?' - Seriously??? You do realise that all of the changes came about because of feminism don't you?? Who do you think secured the vote for women? Or campaigned for changes in property laws? Or changed the law on equal pay?

derxa · 03/01/2017 13:22

You don't understand radical feminism at all Lass. Do enlighten me as to what radical feminism is. I want to know and understand. Genuinely.

HilbertRiddle · 03/01/2017 13:22

Bertrand "I's not that they don't "get it". It's that they don't/can't live it.

And I agree that suicide statistics need to be looked at. But male suicide rates are not feminism's fault."

Well others have used "get it" and even if, doesn't make a difference, just replace "get it" with "can't live it" and I would have written the same post.

No, but they are society's fault. And what feminism is fighting for, is also society's fault.

TheSparrowhawk · 03/01/2017 13:23

'TheSparrowhawk "Of course women don't get what it's like to be a man! Why would they? They may understand intellectually the problems men face, but they can't know what it's like to actually be a man."

And you don't see a problem with this line of arguing?'

No, could you explain?

0phelia · 03/01/2017 13:23

Allowing feminism to alter certain aspects of your male privilege does not make you a feminist.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 03/01/2017 13:24

Ophelia

But why would they change their behaviour towards a group that they still hate according to feminists ? They don't have to - so my question is what was it that persuaded them, if not some kind of "goodness" ?

0phelia · 03/01/2017 13:26

Because they were persuaded by a cultural shift thank you to feminists... girlwith

TheSparrowhawk · 03/01/2017 13:26

WRT to the vote, they changed because they realised that women weren't just going to go away and be quiet. But it took well over 70 years, hunger strikes, force feeding, marches, demonstrations, deaths, bombs, public ridicule and horrifically bad treatment for men to finally give in an give women the vote (despite promising it to them numerous times). That wasn't goodness, that was women persevering so much that men had to cave.

If there was any goodness involved they would have just given women the vote when they asked for it.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 03/01/2017 13:27

Sparrow

Women first wanted to vote when voting was invented. Do you know how long ago that was girl? When did women actually get a vote?

Indeed - there were also millions of men who didn't get to vote either until universal suffrage was introduced. But none of this is evidence that men had to give women the vote. They plainly did not, but decided it was the right thing to do....this is odd conclusion for a group that hate women.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 03/01/2017 13:28

Because they were persuaded by a cultural shift

But they still hate women I thought ?

BertrandRussell · 03/01/2017 13:28

"but you expect that all men should behave in a way that you deem acceptable"

Which of the things on my list do you deem acceptable?

TheSparrowhawk · 03/01/2017 13:29

'But none of this is evidence that men had to give women the vote. They plainly did not, but decided it was the right thing to do....this is odd conclusion for a group that hate women.'

So we should feel grateful, and think that men are so good to us?

TheSparrowhawk · 03/01/2017 13:29

Who on this thread said men hate women girl?

HilbertRiddle · 03/01/2017 13:30

No, could you explain?

I already did, saying "you couldn't understand hence..." is sloppy arguing and makes it likewise legitimate for men to say "you couldn't understand hence...".

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