Do you think men can be feminists?

[AVirginLitTheCandle]

This may sound like a stupid question but do you think men can be feminists?

I've always thought they can be but I perhaps some radical feminists will disagree with me.

Sorry girl

Ive obviously missed something....not difficult with me

Who said that all men hate women? Or is it the reverse of all feminists hate men

Derxa, google 'radical feminism' that'll tell you everything you need to know.

I honestly don't understand Hilbert, sorry.

Hate is a loaded word. No one has said "they hate women please can you point to this example.

Witholding power and opression of women is rather more complex than "hate" alone.

No one has said men hate women. Your argument is becoming buzz phrase bingo.

Who on this thread said men hate women girl? - you. Many if your posts put this message across.

I don't think men hate women. Well of course some men do. I think men have been taught by society to see women as inferior, while at the same time desiring them, which I think must be a mindfuck.

I am still waiting for the seething hatred bit...

Aaah hibert

Please dont make me reread the entire thread, can you link or give vague times?

I honestly don't understand Hilbert, sorry.

Well, that explains why you aren't very logical in many of your posts.

How about, how do you think you could explain something to someone, by saying "you couldn't understand"?

You have totally lost me Hilbert. You're referring to something and I don't know what it is.

As far as I can see, I've said that men can't get what being a woman is like.

You've said, well then men can say that women don't get what being a man is like.

And I agreed with you, because I think that's true.

I'm not sure where it went after that.

Derxa, google 'radical feminism' that'll tell you everything you need to know. Is that it? I want to know what people on here mean by radical feminism. What do you do in your daily life that is so different to what I do?

It is perfectly possible to bow to public pressure, give groups of people certain rights and still hate them. I don't see those things as mutually exclusive.

However, I tend to agree with Sparrowhawk in that men are taught are by society to see women as inferior.

And as for the "seething hatred". Seething hatred is 85,000 women a year raped in the UK; over 2 women a week in the UK being killed at the hands of men; millions of missing women and girls in SE Asia/China; 130 million women undergone FGM.

Women on the internet talking about men as a class oppressing them - not so much.

Rufus I was quoting Sparrow, not you.

What I mean by radical feminism is a desire to see a total societal change away from a patriarchal structure that favours men to a structure in which gender doesn't determine your outcomes in life. That applies to everything from how likely you are to commit suicide down to whether your parents will feel they have to dress you in pink or blue.

What hilbert

I know that...if you were quoting me i would know what i had said

I wanted to know where sparrow had said it or something similar

But dont worry, i have just double checked her posts and i cant find it

It can get a bit confusing on here with all the quoting

"It is not an attempt to appease women by reforms and to divert them from the path of revolutionary struggle. It is not that nor any other reformist swindle. Our demands are practical conclusions which we have drawn from the burning needs, the shameful humiliation of women, in bourgeois society, defenceless and without rights. We demonstrate thereby that we recognise these needs, and are sensible of the humiliation of the woman, the privileges of the man. That we hate, yes, hate everything, and will abolish everything which tortures and oppresses the woman worker, the housewife, the peasant woman, the wife of the petty trader, yes, and in many cases the women of the possessing classes."

• V. I. Lenin

Sparrow I'm not sure where it went after that. - where it went in the first post I mentioned it in, that it is poor argumentation.

scallops Seething hatred is 85,000 women a year raped in the UK - how many men are raped in prisons, are robbed/mugged/beaten/killed? You cannot claim that rape is hatred of women, but all other crimes committed by men are just "normal" crimes. "I raped that woman because I have seething hatred for women", "I beat up that man because I have seething hatred for men".

It's not poor argumentation, it's what I think!

What do you think is the explanation for men's violence Hilbert, against both women and men?

Sorry, i thought it was accepted feminist thinking that "men" as a class, "hate" women. Perhaps that is very much a minority view ? But to answer your question the noun "men" is used to denote a group of people who engage in hateful acts of murder and rape against women. If one is not to infer from this that said group hate the other, what are they to conclude ?

It is perfectly possible to bow to public pressure, give groups of people certain rights and still hate them.

Why would the public pressure to get representation for a group they hated though ? The only logical conclusion is that men( who make up the public and those with power) don't actually hate women at all.

'Why would the public pressure to get representation for a group they hated though ? The only logical conclusion is that men( who make up the public and those with power) don't actually hate women at all.'

How do you think men feel about women then, girl, given that they denied them the vote for 2000+ years?

rufus But dont worry, i have just double checked her posts and i cant find it

You find nothing wrong with her treatment of Dr M?

No one has said men hate women. Your argument is becoming buzz phrase bingo

No one has said it on this thread. Posts such as "I never understood just how much men hate women" appear often on FWR.

what do you do in your daily life that is so different to what I do Derxa

Well, I don't know what you do.

I provide advice and practical resources directly to women in prostitution (and porn) as an active member of a Survivors of prostitution Organization. I have formulated many of my Rad Fem opinions based on my lived experience of both CSA and prostitution, being a victim of male sexual violence and understand the consequences of that, as a woman.

What do you do?