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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Do you think men can be feminists?

999 replies

AVirginLitTheCandle · 01/01/2017 23:39

This may sound like a stupid question but do you think men can be feminists?

I've always thought they can be but I perhaps some radical feminists will disagree with me.

OP posts:
DeviTheGaelet · 06/01/2017 11:24

I feel like this is overdue

Do you think men can be feminists?
DeviTheGaelet · 06/01/2017 11:26

I only raised Mugabe to show that girl was talking nonsense when he said no black activists want a revolution.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 06/01/2017 11:27

OK thanks, I hadn't seen posts confirming that re Girl

pleasehlpemethanks · 06/01/2017 11:28

Clubs are great because they give their members a sense of belonging, of friendship, of shared experience and common purpose. Clubs are enriching, dynamic, hotbeds of thinking. I love clubs.

A successful political movement is a different thing. It wins popular support, it reaches out and bring others under its wing. It shows a better future. Its sets an example. It is what should have been before. It develops ideas and forges a path.

Which one do you want?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 06/01/2017 11:29

I only raised Mugabe to show that girl was talking nonsense when he said no black activists want a revolution

Fair enough but given what Mugabe has actually done it's not a brilliant example of what can be achieved.

PoochSmooch · 06/01/2017 11:32

I thought this quotation I found was quite enlightening:

"Social movements seeking to change the subordinate status of ethnic minorities have drawn activists from both the minority and dominant groups. Conflict has at times developed between movement members of these two groups. In a comparative analysis of three movements -the civil rights movement, the anti-slavery cause in the U.S., and the movement to abolish Untouchability in India- the sources of tension appear quite similar. Ideologically, minority group activists viewed themselves as more radical and committed to that particular cause than did their dominant group co-workers and were more for a strategy of minority group self-help. Organizational conflict arose as majority members disproportionately assumed decision-making positions in the movement. A third source of tension developed because some movement members were carriers of prejudices and hostilities of the larger social milieu. Outsiders frequently played essential roles in the early phases of these movements, but pressures developed on majority members to reduce involvement or withdraw altogether."

Seems very similar to feminism. I'm white, and if I was getting the reaction from a civil rights group that men are getting here, my response would not be "Yeah, well, you're excluding me and it's mean, and you'll never get anywhere without my help".

My response would be "I'm listening. What should my role be?".

I know that it would be that, because that was my role back in the heady days when I would go out campaigning with the then Gaysoc, though I myself am straight. It was never, could never, SHOULD never have been about what I needed. It seems so simple to me, and yet...here we have this thread.

BertrandRussell · 06/01/2017 11:35

What I can't understand is why men want the title. "I want to re called a feminist and if you won't, I'm going to carry on not doing my share of house/childcare, using strip clubs, prostitutes and porn, using sexist language and not calling out other men when they do....I'll only stop if you call me a feminist" It's bizarre.

BertrandRussell · 06/01/2017 11:38

Is it because men realise at some level that they could, now this minute, change their behaviours in a way that would make women's lives much better, but they don't want to?

MrsDustyBusty · 06/01/2017 11:38

So basically the problem is that stupid so-called "feminists" haven't got a charter for you to adjudicate and haven't even organised into a comprehensive structure with fields of competence and a hierarchy. How can a man hope to achieve any KPIs?

PoochSmooch · 06/01/2017 11:39

It is very odd, Bert.

There was a thread on here ages ago titled "Men who think they're so feminist, but who can fuck right off". I keep thinking of that, can't imagine why.

PoochSmooch · 06/01/2017 11:41

Mrs Dusty Grin

If I make a project plan for female world domination, will that help? I'll do a Gantt chart and everyfink. It'll be EPIC.

DeviTheGaelet · 06/01/2017 11:43

dusty Grin

pleasehlpemethanks · 06/01/2017 11:44

ok pooch, fine, you're right. I'm here and ready to help. If it's important that I be a feminist ally, rather than a feminist, that's fine.

DeviTheGaelet · 06/01/2017 11:45

Wasn't meant to be lass. The opposite in fact.
Mandela is a far better example of radical change (because it happened in a less extreme way) and Obama too. Yet they probably don't seem like "proper radicals" to some.

DeviTheGaelet · 06/01/2017 11:49

Here's some things you can do hlp:

  • challenge men making sexist assumptions about women
  • do your share of cleaning, cooking, childcare, present buying, party organising, doctors visits
  • split you leisure time/money equally between adults in the household
  • be aware of possible unconscious biases (your own and others) at work and challenge them where needed e.g. in hiring decisions/promotion shortlists
  • stand up and say you support women's rights
  • let women speak and value their ideas
  • think about impacts on women when voting

I'm sure there are more Smile great that you are onboard

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 06/01/2017 11:57

Confirmed by him on various threads before. In this case we aren't calling a woman a man just because we disagree.

Where have I confirmed my sex ? And it is entirely because you disagree, infact it is the only reason posters on here question another posters sex.

BertrandRussell · 06/01/2017 12:04

"ok pooch, fine, you're right. I'm here and ready to help. If it's important that I be a feminist ally, rather than a feminist, that's fine"

Fantastic. Loads you can do. Start with the ideas in this thread and once they are completely embedded in your life there are more.

Girl You are being disingenuous. I assumed you were a woman and engaged with you as a woman for a long time before you confirmed that you are a man.

pleasehlpemethanks · 06/01/2017 12:04

I still think a women-only club mentality is self-defeating. But it's not the main thing: Progress is. If that requires men to empathise with the need for women to have their club, so be it.

Don't expect other men to think like this tho.

Just sayin!

PoochSmooch · 06/01/2017 12:05

OMG, did I convince you, please? Grin

Do Devi's list. Also, give up porn.

Are you a man, girl? if you're not, seems like it would be easy just to say "I'm a woman". I've been mistaken for a man online before, it's not an insult, it's a mistake, easily rectified.

makeourfuture · 06/01/2017 12:06

From a constitutional standpoint, there are two kinds of rights/freedoms:

Negative rights - where the state refrains from/stops the abridgement of freedom.

Positive rights - where the state actively seeks to create conditions for freedoms to flourish....they "do something".

My perspective is not that total revolution is necessary, but that we must work towards a focus on positive rights. For instance, as stated earlier in the thread by someone, having the right to work is one thing, having equality/equity at work is another.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 06/01/2017 12:06

I don't believe I have every said one way or the other and would not as people on here (rather strangely given the aim of equal treatment) treat the sexes entirely differently depending on what forum you are on.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 06/01/2017 12:07

girl

No you have very careful not to clarify what sex you are

Its been implied on other threads

AnotherRandomMale · 06/01/2017 12:09

BertrandRussell

"I want to re called a feminist and if you won't, I'm going to carry on not doing my share of house/childcare, using strip clubs, prostitutes and porn, using sexist language and not calling out other men when they do....I'll only stop if you call me a feminist"

Who actually said that?

I don't want to be called a feminist because a sizable number of feminists are in my view anti-male misandrists who I do not wish to be associated with.

I do call other men out who are overtly sexist. I've never been with a prostitute or to a strip club. I do my share of the housework.

I am not against the existence of prostitution or strip clubs anyway - the idea of frequenting them just doesn't do anything for me. I am a committed liberal and believe in free choice and individual rights and responsibilities. If adult women through their own free choice want to sell sex or take their clothes off for money, and men want to pay for it - or vice versa - it should be up to them. Some feminists who are liberals agree with me, and others don't.

SpeakNoWords · 06/01/2017 12:10

You could drop the patronising turn of phrase too, pleasehlp. It comes across that you're not being genuine and that you're actually dismissive of other posters.

It seems to me like what you're saying is that the problem with feminism is that women are doing it. Maybe that's not your intention but that's how it's coming across to me, having lurked on this thread.

MrsDustyBusty · 06/01/2017 12:11

Don't expect other men to think like this tho.

Well clearly not every man is as enlightened as you.

Should we expect violence?

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