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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Do you think men can be feminists?

999 replies

AVirginLitTheCandle · 01/01/2017 23:39

This may sound like a stupid question but do you think men can be feminists?

I've always thought they can be but I perhaps some radical feminists will disagree with me.

OP posts:
TheSparrowhawk · 04/01/2017 19:36

'If all men took just one step up on the feminism ladder the world would be a better place?!'

All men really need to do is listen, that's how things will genuinely change, perhaps very slowly, but hey ho we've waited a long time already. You've done that here, so that is a positive thing, one of the most valuable acts in support of feminism that men can engage in IMO.

CharlieSierra · 04/01/2017 19:36

Would you take giving up objectifying women as your first step?

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 04/01/2017 19:48

I guess being a male feminist is an impossible ideal, but surely the point is that people at least aspire to it

Not really - it's possible to not watch porn.

HilbertRiddle · 04/01/2017 19:56

Studies have shown porn is not "objectification" of women.

DeviTheGaelet · 04/01/2017 20:12

Why don't you start a different thread about it hilbert?

Very brave move dad. Is it important to you to call yourself a feminist?
I think men could say something like they support women's rights and get their point across. In the same way I would say I support civil rights rather than I am a black activist (I'm white).

DrMorbius · 04/01/2017 21:28

If all men took just one step up on the feminism ladder the world would be a better place?

Why stop there Dadbot ?, if every person took one step up on the equality for all ladder, the world would be a better place?!

BTW stop the porn mate, use your mind.

venusinscorpio · 04/01/2017 21:51

Hilbert, which studies have shown porn is not objectification of women exactly? And why the quote marks around "objectification"? What exactly do you think porn is? Or do you honestly think most men think of the women they're watching as real human beings with feelings and lives outside of porn? Or think too deeply about how those lives might be working out?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 04/01/2017 22:21

Why do you have to be a feminist to think pornography is degrading and debating?

It's simply another one of the decent things decent people believe as far as I'm concerned. Same as being opposed to the factory farming of animals.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 04/01/2017 22:22

Debasing not debating.

CharlieSierra · 04/01/2017 22:29

I don't think anyone said that Lass. More that it wasn't possible to be a feminist and not find it debasing.

DeviTheGaelet · 04/01/2017 22:30

You don't lass
But lots of people who would call themselves decent don't think porn is degrading and think the Nordic model is bad.
Your definition of "decent" quite closely aligns with things feminists believe. Having feminust values bur not being feminist is a lass paradox Grin (that is meant affectionately)

BertrandRussell · 04/01/2017 22:44

"I guess being a male feminist is an impossible ideal, but surely the point is that people at least aspire to it"

I don't think it's an impossible ideal at all. All men have to do is want to.

LuisCarol · 05/01/2017 00:45

Does it make a difference who is asking? If a man asks another man if he'd describe himself as a feminist, can or should the answer be different than if a woman asks the same man?

HilbertRiddle · 05/01/2017 07:40

venusinscorpio - campuspress.yale.edu/joshuaknobe/files/2016/02/mind-body-1fpe1nv.pdf

In " " because what they find is not what one traditionally thinks of objectification.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 05/01/2017 07:53

Have you read the whole thing hilbert?

I am not 100% sure that that piece research "proves" what you think it "proves"

DeviTheGaelet · 05/01/2017 07:53

"The increased perceptions of experience
stemming from a body focus led
‘objectified’ others to be seen as relatively
reduced moral agents (less morally
responsible) (Experiment 5) but relatively
greater moral patients (more sensitive to
harm) (Experiments 5 and 6).
These results suggest that the
nature of objectification may need to be
reconsidered in light of the two-
dimensional structure of mind perception."

This is a study about what objectification is. It is not a study into whether porn objectifies women so your assertion "Studies have shown porn is not "objectification" of women." Isnt backed up by this study.

This is a derailment though, as I said please start another thread to discuss this if you want. You will get plenty of takers I'm sure.

BertrandRussell · 05/01/2017 08:06

I find it fascinating that the men who want to be called feminists are not prepared to say how being a feminist will affect their daily lives.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 05/01/2017 08:07

I don't think anyone said that Lass. More that it wasn't possible to be a feminist and not find it debasing.

Isn't this another problem though with the definition of "feminist" since there are many women who call themselves feminists who do not view pornography the way you do, infact some of them even make it. So your opinion is that someone who was a feminist would find porn debasing (interesting choice of word I think degrading is better).

There are many arguments about who can and cannot be a feminist I suppose.

HilbertRiddle · 05/01/2017 08:07

I am not the one who started talking about porn - in fact I asked why we are talking about it now. So you are happy to bring it up, talk about it, but when someone with a different view comes along you attack them for "derailing"? So typical of this board, lulz.

I don't think you understand what it is actually saying. You are just reading it how you want it to read, which is "the premise is porn objectifies women, but this study shows different results so let's change what objectification means rather than question the premise".

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 05/01/2017 08:09

I find it fascinating that the men who want to be called feminists are not prepared to say how being a feminist will affect their daily lives.

I think it obvious that the argument being made is that the answer is "not much" if they already do things that you would consider feminist but the consider to be common decency and respect. It would be not be hard to align ones behaviour with many people who declare themselves feminist but do nothing other than whine about how unfair the world is by typing diatribes on their shiny macbooks. :)

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 05/01/2017 08:13

hilbert

I absolutely understand what its saying...

HilbertRiddle · 05/01/2017 08:33

"I find it fascinating that the men who want to be called feminists are not prepared to say how being a feminist will affect their daily lives."

As I said before, which you seem to have over-read, if being called a feminist means being bunched up with people like Sparrowhawk, I'd rather not have that label. My entire argument, which I have stated way too many times now, is that given the definition of feminism/feminist, there are plenty of men who are feminists. If anything, the whole attitude of "if men just listened, men can't be feminists coz they can't live it, etc." is a perfect example of why feminism is even ridiculed and used as a derogatory term in many instances (in fact, elsewhere I have been "insulted" as a feminist, as a "liberal" too for that matter).

HilbertRiddle · 05/01/2017 08:34

Rufus

I absolutely understand what its saying...

amispartacus · 05/01/2017 08:37

It would be not be hard to align ones behaviour with many people who declare themselves feminist but do nothing other than whine about how unfair the world is by typing diatribes on their shiny macbooks

What is it with you and Macbooks? Other devices are available.

You do know that it is possible to discuss feminist issues online, raise awareness - and do things off line as well.

Your use of the word whine reveals your views on feminism - and it is surprising that as a man, you decide to post on a feminist chat board and tell feminists they are 'whining'. What kind of man does that?

Have you done anything differently after reading and being part of many threads on MN feminism?

BertrandRussell · 05/01/2017 08:45

Yes, "whine" is a real "marker" word, isn't it?

I wonder if all these feminist men take 50% responsibility for house/childcare, actively refuse to use sexist language/jokes and call out other men when they use them, refuse to go to lap dancing and strip clubs and say openly why, don't use porn.......for starters.

Or do they just whine on their MacBooks about how unfair it all is and if they can't call themselves feminists they don't see why they should support women at all..........