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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Do you think men can be feminists?

999 replies

AVirginLitTheCandle · 01/01/2017 23:39

This may sound like a stupid question but do you think men can be feminists?

I've always thought they can be but I perhaps some radical feminists will disagree with me.

OP posts:
HilbertRiddle · 03/01/2017 19:01

No, you are right she didn't actually use the word troll.

HilbertRiddle · 03/01/2017 19:03

zsazsagaboredom not the first time I see people on this forum use the ""Hilbert, mate, it's not us, it's you."" as Het did or the "incoherent, is English your first language" when someone posts who disagrees with people.

ACubed · 03/01/2017 19:04

Re: the things men should stop doing, I fully agree, but remember many man (minority, but many) don't do these things. I just a feel like tarring a whole sex with the same brush is exactly what we're fighting against?
Maybe the answer to the initial question is no, men can't be radical feminists, but yes they can be generic, Oxford dictionary feminists

CharlieSierra · 03/01/2017 19:09

Sorry, i thought it was accepted feminist thinking that "men" as a class, "hate" women. Perhaps that is very much a minority view

Maybe younger women haven't read the female eunuch and therefore there is no context for them?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 03/01/2017 19:12

Maybe the answer to the initial question is no, men can't be radical feminists, but yes they can be generic, Oxford dictionary feminists

I think that is a very good answer.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 03/01/2017 19:15

Although I would also add that if you agree with the aims of the generic Oxford dictionary definition I don't think it matters whether anyone calls themselves a feminist or not.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 03/01/2017 19:18

Maybe the answer to the initial question is no, men can't be radical feminists, but yes they can be generic, Oxford dictionary feminists

Sounds pretty sane to me.

TheSparrowhawk · 03/01/2017 19:24

I think dictionary definition feminism is pretty pointless.

DeviTheGaelet · 03/01/2017 19:47

M0stly I am with you
I said on the MRA thread I just want some evidence to support how men are oppressed. But no - just "mean feminists are illogical!" "If women are oppressed men must be too otherwise you aren't equal!!" "Man haters".
So much yawning. Shame as the thread was reasonable when I left for work this morning

TheSparrowhawk · 03/01/2017 19:55

'That's the main thing I struggle with with radical feminism. There's lots of talk about how the world should be but not very much on how this change should be done'

I am totally baffled by this. You do realise that it's radical feminists (whether they called themselves that or not) who have secured every single right that you enjoy today?

DeviTheGaelet · 03/01/2017 19:55

ACubed what do you think the answer is? I struggle with understanding what feminism is about if one can't compare the experience of men with the experience of women. It makes it seem almost as if the things impacting women (rape/murder by partner/DV/lower pay/forced marriage/FGM/forced birth/exclusion from society because of menstruation) are either bad luck or somehow the woman's own fault.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 03/01/2017 20:13

I am totally baffled by this. You do realise that it's radical feminists (whether they called themselves that or not) who have secured every single right that you enjoy today

I meant what's the plan from now. Not what has been achieved already (no idea if past feminists identified as rad / liberal etc)

TheSparrowhawk · 03/01/2017 20:22

Do you honestly think there are no women changing things today? Nobody at all?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 03/01/2017 20:30

It was quite obvious to me that is what you meant WhenSheWasBad

I agree radical feminism as portrayed on here is all about how the world should be but not very much on how this change should be done; or what societal structures would be in place to enforce this ideal society which at the same time do not encroach on personal choice to an unacceptable level.

I see a few pages back someone posted, I assume approvingly, from Lenin. I doubt many would sign up for that.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 03/01/2017 20:35

Do you honestly think there are no women changing things today? Nobody

Of course I do. I don't automatically assume she is a rad fem though.

I always thought (and I accept I could be wrong) that radical feminists want society to be totally (almost totally) restructured to remove the patriarchy.
What I'm not clear on is the actual plan to do that from this point on.

Clearly just changing legislation isn't enough. Rape is illegal but it still happens. The equal pay act hasn't stopped unequal pay (but it's improved).

I just want a rad fem to explain to me what the clear step by step plan is.

TheSparrowhawk · 03/01/2017 20:37

I find it odd that people who don't identify with radical feminists complain that radical feminists don't do enough.

DeviTheGaelet · 03/01/2017 20:39

I think we are in a bit of a Brexit situation. A rad fem (or indeed any kind of feminist or non-feminist) could day what they thought the plan could be. But as there is no "rad-fem" party then it would just be that individuals opinion.
Lots of feminists campaign and take action against all kinds of things. I don't really know what else we can do?

DeviTheGaelet · 03/01/2017 20:41

whenshe I've seen you post lots before. What do you think the feminist plan is? Why is that different to the "rad fem" plan you envisage?
I think rad fems get a bad press through the TERF name calling and it's not fair myself

TheSparrowhawk · 03/01/2017 20:43

When radical feminists talk about changing things from the from the ground up, such as ending the pink/blue girl/boy thing they're always accused of over thinking.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 03/01/2017 20:44

I find it odd that people who don't identify with radical feminists complain that radical feminists don't do enough

I didn't say that - I just want to know what the plan is. I wouldn't vote of a party without some idea of what their manifesto was, I'm not going to join up as a rad fem without some idea as to what the plan is.

TheSparrowhawk · 03/01/2017 20:46

You don't 'join up', it's not a party.

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 03/01/2017 20:51

re the join up - bad analogy on my part - apologies.

Would still like to know what a rad fem plan looks like.

ACubed · 03/01/2017 20:58

For the record I don't have anything against radical feminists, I sort of wish I was more hardline, but my general view is that we should work together for equality.
Not the same thing at all, but to make an analogy - I'd consider myself part of the anti war movement, and would be slightly hurt if I was told I couldn't be because I'm English, and we invaded Iraq. I'll never know what those people must be going through, and I wouldn't pretend to, but I am do my best to imagine, and to support them. I don't see why it's so different for men to be included as feminists if they genuinely support the cause. Although I guess labels don't really mean much, it's how you feel and what you do that counts.

ACubed · 03/01/2017 20:59

Also I don't think women need to be tasked with having some master plan to end inequality to make their views stand up.

TheSparrowhawk · 03/01/2017 21:02

The plan is to make gender irrelevant and to have sex taken into account only when it is relevant, ie childbirth, sports etc. That involves not accepting boys/girls men/women being separated in terms of colours, toys, expectations, treatment, education, outcome etc. That involves understanding and challenging discrimination wherever it happens, no matter how 'petty.'