Why do people get so defensive over feminist issues?

[amispartacus]

'I write them because my handwriting is neater' when discussing Christmas cards.

"I didn't like my surname" when discussing name changing.

"There's no issue with stereotyping".

It's amazing how defensive people get when feminism is discussed and how much justification goes on. Sometimes you wonder if people can't see it - and think you are making a fuss about nothing.

Feminism is premised on the idea that women are systematically oppressed by men. Some women don't agree with this, and even think it is slightly absurd.

Someone is going to join in and not read the thread and think WTF there talking about carrots

I know why I like carrots

Fact is I know my own mind
I don't need someone to tell me I'm wrong

Someone can ask me "why do you like carrots"

But people don't ask me why.
They tell me why I shouldn't

girlwith do you think that a girl born into the world in any random culture will always have the same opportunities and freedoms as a boy?

Fact is I know my own mind, I don't need someone to tell me I'm wrong

I don't think anyone should tell anyone they are wrong in their decision. I don't think choices we make are free of influence and even though we do know our own mind, decisions and choices are not always independently made.

Sometimes it's easier to go with the flow in life. That's a valid choice.

I don't think people should justify their choices and if you're truly a feminist you shouldn't be judging them for their choices. You should just be glad that we HAVE choices and that we are able to make choices for ourselves instead of being told what to do by our husbands. If you want to put your effort into something then get on the "encouraging young women into STEM roles" band wagon and do something to raise awareness about the pay gap.
As an aside my handwriting IS neater but my OH will be taking my surname when we marry as quite frankly mine is better :)

As an aside my handwriting IS neater but my OH will be taking my surname when we marry as quite frankly mine is better

Now there's a thread asking if someone's handwriting is neater than their DH's and if so, why

girlwith do you think that a girl born into the world in any random culture will always have the same opportunities and freedoms as a boy?

Of course not, but the issues you raised I thought were about here in the UK. And anyway, I think that opportunities afforded young women in this country, in terms of going to uni etc, actually seem greater than for young men at the moment. It also depends a lot on your economic background, it seems rather simplistic or overly abstract and quite removed from actual real issues such as who writes the xmas cards IYSWIM.

even though we do know our own mind, decisions and choices are not always independently made.

Of course not but you could say the same thing about anything in society.

What I find abhorrent is another woman in the name of feminism telling me I'm wrong for my choices

You should just be glad that we HAVE choices and that we are able to make choices for ourselves instead of being told what to do by our husbands.

Ah yes the old "be grateful that the world is not as sexist as it used to be" argument.

I was responding to your statement:

"Feminism is premised on the idea that women are systematically oppressed by men. Some women don't agree with this, and even think it is slightly absurd."

There was no qualification that you meant only uk based feminism specifically. If it even makes sense to talk about "UK feminism", it's possible to want to change issues still affecting women in the UK as well as wanting to change the more serious and extreme issues facing women around the world.

What I find abhorrent is another woman in the name of feminism telling me I'm wrong for my choices

I would find that abhorrent too if I saw that happening.

What I find abhorrent is another woman in the name of feminism telling me I'm wrong for my choices

But nobody is doing that here.

What I find abhorrent is another woman in the name of feminism telling me I'm wrong for my choices

Not here, but the discussion and the OP is leading that way

I have been told this. I have seen this on threads on MN

It drives me bonkers and leads me to defend my decisions

Well my view on it is that women's handwriting often is neater than men's. I remember as a young girl, and then as a teen, obsessing about my handwriting, doing those little hearts over the i, all of that. That is quite a feminine thing I think. I remember my brothers handwriting being called 'doctors writing' (illegible).

I have little difficulty believing most women have neater handwriting than their partners. Because socialisation, sexism. But in questioning that and why that is you open up a whole can of worms. It is girls who sit at school daydreaming writing 'Mrs X Smith. Mrs X Thompson' etc. Not all girls of course - but it is only girls that do it.

And with hating your name - again I believe more women hate their birth name than men. Because women grow up seeing changing it as a possibility. They internally challenge the name and maybe distance themselves from it in a way boys aren't encouraged to do. I grew up in an abusive home, I never really identified with my birth name - I saw a future where I could change it, reject it, and I held on to that. I jumped at the chance to change it.

Not here, but the discussion and the OP is leading that way

t drives me bonkers and leads me to defend my decisions

On many threads about things women do, it's interesting to see some of the reasons given. It's very common to see the 'I hate my surname' reason. Maybe people do. I have rarely heard a man say they hate their surname - but of course, it's not a topic usually discussed by men.

Isn't that a massive part of feminism? Discussing the context decisions and choices are made in and what influences them?

But what gets me in these discussions on say clothes and appearance for example is the , to me, very smug way certain posters announce they buy all their clothes from the men's section , never wear dresses, only wear unisex shoes, spend three and fourpence on haircuts because that is their choice ; they have thought about it and analysed the oppressive nature of a pretty dress but I'm just (mindlessly) performing femininity. They have made an informed choice and I haven't.

And then there will be threads by the same posters talking about being oppressed by "wife-work" or getting treated as the minute- takers at work meetings which I seem to have avoided /be able to avoid despite my lack of critical analysis.

Lass perhaps you could analyse why you're immune to these things, as I think your undoubted skill at avoiding these things needs sharing, desperately. How can more women be like you?

I hate the 'women write the cards' thing.

I do sort of agree with Lass though, that if women all stopped caring quite so much what people think (more like men don't really care because their social value is not based to any significant extent on whether they send a card or not), the problem would start to resolve itself.

I have just written my cards for this year, but only the cards I wanted to write.

It's very common to see the 'I hate my surname' reason. Maybe people do.

Depends why they hate it though doesn't it

I said up thread both myself and my brother have decided to change our names on marriage

Because our father was an arsehole

Since there are less men on MN your not going to see floods of men saying they hate their name and therefore are going to change it on here.

But I'm sure others feel like my brother and will change their name upon marriage.

I do kind of understand where your coming from with regards to taking a mans name automatically, maybe it would be a start to think people discuss it but I can't help but think there are far more important equality issues over and above a name.

Just my opinion

It's not fair though. Men take less of a social hit for failure to write cards than women.

I've never experienced the idea I see so often on here that "women and girls are told.../ society tells...".

On name changing, giving up work, having a cleaner etc, never agonised about any of them. My mother married twice and never changed her name. I was brought up by her and my maternal grandfather both of whom were very resistant to doing what was expected of them if it didn't suit them.

Penguins only one man I know who was abused changed his name.

All the women did.

I know one woman who changed her name by deed poll and faced unending nosey questions about why.

It's hard for men to change their name and face all that questioning.

To be clear - nobody was abused in our family

We just had a crap father

Really Lass?

On surname changing, I was going to suggest double barrelling would be better, as happens in Spain. However, I reckon a better option would be for the couple to choose an entirely new surname on marriage to suit them and their future kids. Could be more fun. I took the more traditional route so too late now for me..

Double barrelling baffles me

I have friends who are double barrelled if they have kids do they become double double barrelled when they have children :)