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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Why do people get so defensive over feminist issues?

126 replies

amispartacus · 18/12/2016 19:50

'I write them because my handwriting is neater' when discussing Christmas cards.

"I didn't like my surname" when discussing name changing.

"There's no issue with stereotyping".

It's amazing how defensive people get when feminism is discussed and how much justification goes on. Sometimes you wonder if people can't see it - and think you are making a fuss about nothing.

OP posts:
Trills · 18/12/2016 20:48

It doesn't make me a bad person or a bad feminist; it makes me human.

Absolutely

RebelRogue · 18/12/2016 20:50

Trills I think you're onto something there....

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 18/12/2016 20:51

I didn't change my name;
I can't be bothered sending Christmas cards so any which get sent are sent by husband;
It never occurred to me that I should be responsible for sending birthday or Christmas cards to his family;
The whole "wife-work" thing mystifies me- do it if you want to- sort it out with whoever you live with if you don't want to;
I honestly can't say I encountered sexism at work or that my career was held back by being female or a mother and it patronising in the extreme to be told it must have been but I just didn't realise it.

Perhaps because some people don't like other women speaking for women kind as a whole?

The above rings true; especially when followed up within a couple of posts by
Do not feed the troll

I think one of the most annoying threads I was ever on was one where a feminist told me over several pages that my dislike of, and boredom with, sport was because I was too stupid not to realise this was due to social conditioning, because obviously she knew better because she had thought about it.

PurpleDaisies · 18/12/2016 20:55

Purple
Is it mouldy and your a baker?
Killer /doctor
Rotten/green grocery
Cooper/alcoholic counsellor
Ok that's all I got. I'll get my coat

It was actually very similar to one of those. Grin

Katnisnevergreen · 18/12/2016 21:01

Thank you Lass. It is so patronising to be spoken to in this way.
It drives me mad and to be honest you can see why some women have an issue with feminism if all that happens is they are spoken down to and told they are wrong and stupid.

PenguinsandPebbles · 18/12/2016 21:02

Choices don't happen in a vacuum but it's interesting to see how some people justify their decisions.

Why do you think I am unable to make my own decisions?

Why shouldn't I justify to another woman telling me how should I act and feel.

"Feminists" who dictate how I should be and how I should feel are no better than the men they "fight" against IMO

I'm tired of some women thinking they get to tell me how I should be or what I should decide.

I'm very much for equality and all of my decisions about how I live my life have been made in a very loving partnership.

I'm now a SAHP.

If I am in a lesbian relationship - am I less of a feminist? Or have I had made a decision with my partner
If I am in a heterosexual relationship - am I down trodden or have I made a decision with my partner

The answer is, I made my choice as a woman who is equal to her partner. I do not need other women to tell me I am wrong

SpeakNoWords · 18/12/2016 21:03

Lass you've been very fortunate, and seem to have escaped any negative socialisation related to your sex. Do you have any thoughts about about how your upbringing might have differed from those around you who have experienced these issues in their upbringing?

Also, the "wife-work" thing. I think many women feel social or family pressure to do these things like write Christmas cards, and find it hard to push against this pressure. You don't have any of that pressure or you're strong enough and more able to ignore it than other women.

Original poster
amispartacus · 18/12/2016 21:05

t drives me mad and to be honest you can see why some women have an issue with feminism if all that happens is they are spoken down to and told they are wrong and stupid

You do see people saying "They have better handwriting, they hate their surname".

Is that being defensive? Is that an honest answer? Or is it just an excuse?

It's just something you don't see men talking about - finding reasons to say why they do something.

Maybe they do have better handwriting? Maybe they do hate their surname?

OP posts:
Original poster
amispartacus · 18/12/2016 21:07

Why do you think I am unable to make my own decisions

Of course you are. How much of your decisions (or anyone's decisions) are truly free decisions and how much influence does societal expectations place on that decision?

I don't think many choices are taken without outside influence. What is expected.

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 18/12/2016 21:07

It's just something you don't see men talking about - finding reasons to say why they do something.

On threads where it's stated as wrong to make a particular choice, many people (regardless of whether they're a man or woman) would want to explain why they acted as they did.

PenguinsandPebbles · 18/12/2016 21:11

Well my DP often says will you write the Christmas cards this year because my handwriting is shit. His handwriting is shit.

I also do all the DIY because and he is the first to admit that he is shit at DIY.

My brother is changing his surname when he gets married because ours isn't very nice and related to a man who left us when we were small. I will be changing my surname as well.

Is my brother more of a feminist that me because he is changing his surname and I am not a feminist because I will change my surname? (I don't see myself as a feminist btw I want equality)

Yes take what some people say as truth.

Original poster
amispartacus · 18/12/2016 21:12

I don't think it's wrong or right to do some stuff that I've mentioned. It's just the reasons given. They often seem quite defensive.

I suppose people are often going to be defensive over decisions they've made.

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 18/12/2016 21:13

I suppose people are often going to be defensive over decisions they've made.

When people feel they're being criticised for the decision they've made it's pretty natural to feel defensive.

PenguinsandPebbles · 18/12/2016 21:20

Ok OP

let's say you like carrots, you decide carrots are your thing. You like carrots hell you love carrots.

I tell you, no, you shouldn't eat carrots.

Would you just roll over and say "Your right I now hate carrots"

Or would you say "hang on, I actually love my carrots"

PenguinsandPebbles · 18/12/2016 21:21

That's how i feel when someone tells me I'm less of a woman for giving up my high flying career to be a SAHP.

I know my own mind.

Original poster
amispartacus · 18/12/2016 21:25

I tell you, no, you shouldn't eat carrots

Is there anything wrong with analysing why you like carrots?
What influenced you to like carrots?

No one has said you shouldn't like carrots. But sometimes the reasons for liking carrots can seem a bit defensive.

OP posts:
Trills · 18/12/2016 21:27

So it seems that I'm right that people are seeing

you personally are wrong to make this choice

when what is being said is

this choice is made within a sexist context

SpeakNoWords · 18/12/2016 21:27

The first thing I'd do is ask you why you think I shouldn't eat carrots. If you had some good points then I'd consider changing my mind! I wouldn't get defensive about why I liked them.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 18/12/2016 21:29

sexist context

Who gets to decide that the context is sexist ?

SpeakNoWords · 18/12/2016 21:30

That's for discussion, that's the point of the discussion boards, I think.

Original poster
amispartacus · 18/12/2016 21:30

If you had some good points then I'd consider changing my mind

If society bombarded you with images of women eating carrots from young, if the DM had a go at women who didn't eat carrots and if men were put off eating carrots, then the decision could be analysed.

I like carrots Grin

OP posts:
WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 18/12/2016 21:31

Maybe they are defensive because you have highlighted something pretty uncomfortable for them. Or maybe a judgements been made that isn't accurate.

I remember being challenged about why I wouldn't get a cleaner on mn. The poster had assumed I do the lions share of the house work. It's actually a reasonable split.

If you challenged me about why dh has an appalling hoard of crap in the attic I might get defensive - cause that really does need fixing

Trills · 18/12/2016 21:31

Maybe your handwriting is so much better than you would write the cards even if we were in an equal world.

But we are not in an entirely equal world, because if we were there would be even numbers of husbands who had the better handwriting.

Given that we are not in an equal world, why not take a moment to reflect on your choices and consider that they may be influenced by more than that which we see on the surface?

Original poster
amispartacus · 18/12/2016 21:31

Who gets to decide that the context is sexist

Isn't that a massive part of feminism? Discussing the context decisions and choices are made in and what influences them?

OP posts:
DeviTheGaelet · 18/12/2016 21:40

I want an Eyeroll emoticon because I'm bored of justifying being feminist on here at the mo.
I do a lot of unfeminist stuff. I wax/shave. I took DH surname. Etc etc. But I can still see that these things were a choice I made in the context of social pressure to do so.
It doesn't make me anti-feminist that I do these things. Equally though it doesn't mean these things aren't indicators of a patriarchal society.

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