anti feminist on women & equalities committee

[Lorelei76]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/philip-davies-women-equalities-committee-feminist-zealots-a7471901.html

the number of times I've had to check the date reading the news lately.....

I've just signed it , it came up on my Facebook

When - there are an awful lot of "I'm alright Jill's" around. They used to just not be involved in feminism, fair enough Jill, fair enough. Now, they seem to be actively involved in either working against or diluting feminism.

That makes me cross.

I am always, perhaps naively, amazed at the reaction of what feels like the majority of mumsnetters to anyone who expresses a feminist point of view. The rush to either insist that it be moved at once to the feminism boards "because I've got those hidden" or to a mixture of fury and mockery is extraordinary. And depressing.

This will be controversial probably, but the impression I get from a lot of feminism is that actually, these people don't like men very much and think women are "better". They would never say it in so many words but it comes across. Not saying anything like all or even most feminists are like this, but a lot of stuff you read on the internet under the name feminism seems like petty point scoring and it detracts from the big issues facing women mentioned here.

I am always, perhaps naively, amazed at the reaction of what feels like the majority of mumsnetters to anyone who expresses a feminist point of view

I do know what you mean bert but there's no one thing that is a feminist viewpoint. I count myself as a feminist but I disagree with some of what I see on the feminist boards.

You can disagree with some feminist view points and not be anti feminist.

"This will be controversial probably, but the impression I get from a lot of feminism is that actually, these people don't like men very much and think women are "better"."

This is something that is often said- but people can never come up with examples. It does seem an odd conclusion to draw, considering that most feminists have male lovers, and fathers and sons.......

"You can disagree with some feminist view points and not be anti feminist"

Of course. I can't immediately think of any, but I am sure there are lots!

I think some people get mixed up between feminists who criticise patriarchy and toxic masculinity etc, and people who hate men. It's a different thing.

This is something that is often said- but people can never come up with examples. It does seem an odd conclusion to draw, considering that most feminists have male lovers, and fathers and sons.......

I agree, but then most misogynists also have wives, mothers and daughters. Having relatives or partners of the opposite sex does not in itself prove that you do not think women are generally better or preferable to men.

People on here have justified hatred of men as a valid reaction to living in what they perceive to be a patriarchal society. I would say that suggests they prefer women wouldn't you ?

"People on here have justified hatred of men as a valid reaction to living in what they perceive to be a patriarchal society. I would say that suggests they prefer women wouldn't you ?"

OK. Maybe I'm desensitized- but I have been a feminist for longer than most mumsnetters have been alive, and I have hardly ever heard anyone express that opinion- except maybe in a moment of hyperbolic anger. Not even in the angry consciousness raising 1970s. I honestly don't think I have ever read it on Mumsnet.

I have heard women say they prefer the company of women- but that's rather different.

Actually, my dd did ring me up once to tell me she hated all men. She was walking home alone late at night after an evening of being hassled in a club, and had just been sexually harassed in the street. She was back to only hating horrible men and understanding that the patriarchy damages men too by the morning......

Of course. I can't immediately think of any, but I am sure there are lots

Some the ones that spring to mind are a dislike of pink "pink stinks" campaign.

Calling women handmaidens and cool wives as a degrogatory term.

There was a discussion on a while ago on "is all penetration rape?" probably not the actual title Lots of posters in it was it was an interesting debate. But for most women it probably sounded somewhat academic and out of touch with the real world.

There was an utterly hilarious thread years and years ago about ultra sound scans. There was a description that a girls genital looks like a hamburger on a scan (it kind of does - I saw my own daughters scan). There were loads of posters saying the reason people said it looked like a hamburger was because women are treated like meat and as possessions. Couldn't possibly be because it was a pretty good description of what the scan looked like.

So I agree with girlwith sometimes sone of the online discussions can look like petty point scoring.

I'd be interested to see some examples of man-hating, too. I've been here about 18 months I think, and I can only think of one thread that touched on reasons why some women fear and yes, perhaps hate, men. I think there were maybe three or four posters, none of them regulars, who expressed it, and the view was held universally as a result of abuse or assault at the hands of the men in their life. It's not a commonly held view in feminism at all.

On the contrary, I think the attitude of "boys will be boys" and "what can you expect from men" that I see on other boards speaks to a far lower opinion of men than is held by your average feminist. There's a poverty of expectation about men in a lot of postings that I find quite depressing. Feminists are more likely to believe that men can do better. It's the whole point!

My mouth is hanging open at some of the proclamations of Philip Davies. Common sense indeed! My arse.

Oops, missed a bit of my post.

The post that I'm thinking of about hating men had as its central point the fact that feeling like that distressed the OP. She didn't like the conclusions she was reaching about men. It saddened her and she wanted to change it.

I've never seen it expressed as something that women enjoy or relish.

WhenShe.

Yes there eve issues around "pink stinks" but it was an effective and thought provoking campaign.

Some women "do" behave as "handmaidens" and "cool wives". Are you saying that it's anti feminist to call them out on it? Or it's not anti feminist to be one of those "types"

The "all PIV is rape" thing is quite an academic discussion- some women find that sort of debate interesting. It's not anti feminist not to be interested. It is anti feminist to grab the headline and rush around waving it and saying "See? This is why feminists are man haters!" without stopping to try and understand what it's about.

I wasn't around for the hamburger one so I can't comment. it does sound a bit bonkers.

Not sure what you mean by "petty point scoring"

I tried to be careful and not use the "man hating" phrase what I'm getting at is they prefer women to men. They would rather work for a woman, sit next to women etc, people who complain on twitter that if a man offers help, automatically a sexist because he assumed the women wouldn't be able to do it herself - that's the kind of thing I'm getting at. They would probably employ women over men if they had the choice - which is logical if you really believe that women need help to overcome the systematic oppression visited upon them by men. But it is not equality.

I think it is a commonly held view on here that women are right to fear men and that they should.

He's currently in Parliament trying to block the Istanbul Convention to combat violence against women and girls.

He's an utter fuckface.

Girl- you did post this "People on here have justified hatred of men as a valid reaction to living in what they perceive to be a patriarchal society."

And now you are talking about preferring to sit next to a woman, and quoting opinions expressed on Twitter. (Incidentally, I do think the "a man is a sexist because he offers help" thing is a bit of an urban myth)

I think I have lost track at bit- could you explain again? I don't hate men at all- but if I had to choose who to sit next to at a social event I would probably choose a woman, all other things being equal.

If it's possible, I dislike this man even more today after reading that TheWoodlander.

Richard Osman has just tweeted "I don't want to cause a stampede ladies, but Philip Davies MP is single."

Metro article on Davies' attempted filibuster

Woodlander - I think your assessment may be too generous to him, but alas, my extensive repertoire of swear-words is proving inadequate to describing the sheer nastiness of this man.

Not sure what you mean by "petty point scoring

The main reason I agree with girls comment on point scoring is the attention threads get on the feminist boards.

So yes there is a place for the "all penetration is rape" style threads and they are really busy. But the ones on equal pay slip by with only a few comments.

There seems to be more interest in academic discussion than the more practical threads dealing with (for example) equal pay or child care costs.

Im probably being a bit hypocritical here as I do love the odd purely academic thread

Bertrand

I wasn't aware i had to narrow my comments about how feminism is perceived to this board only. However as regards my comment about the justification of man hating, the thread I'm thinking of can easily be googled and people can judge for themselves whether the expressed desire to live in women only villages etc (which as i recall was not criticised) is indicative of a healthy attitude towards men.

I do think the "a man is a sexist because he offers help" thing is a bit of an urban myth

Do you mean that you think people do not say these things on twitter or elsewhere - would you like me to find you an example !?

I don't hate men at all- but if I had to choose who to sit next to at a social event I would probably choose a woman, all other things being equal.

Why ?

girl, I have to ask this: given that this is a thread to discuss a particular man, who, as an MP is in a position of power, and who, given his rank and public misogyny, has been unnaccountably elected to the equalities committee in the House of Commons, one incidentally who hates women so much he is prepared to filibuster a bill to protect victims of trafficking - why the hell are you seeking to derail this thread into a thread about "feminists hate men"?

Do you have anything substantive to contribute to the discussion of Philip Davies, MP?

Someone is massively taking the piss with this appointment. I'm extremely heartened to hear that Jess Phillips will be there too - she's well used to his bullshit and is not afraid of a scrap.

Dear god. Dark days.