Shannon Mathews

[user1477282676]

This was a shocking case. The child was without a doubt a victim in terrible circumstances. Her own Mother stashing her away under the bed of her partner...drugging her, lying to the public and to her friends about such an awful thing.

But.

Does anyone here think that the press and the public demonised her in a far worse fashion than criminals who do worse have been?

She was pilloried, called terrible names...really made into a sort of figurehead for everything "unwomanly" when there are plenty of men who commit arguably worse crimes and who get away without the public disgrace.

Yes she did a truly awful thing but the fact that she was

A: A woman
B: Working Class
C: Ignorant
D: Unattractive

All added up to ensure that she was the perfect example of a demon woman. Can anyone expand or tell me more about this sort of thing? Do you agree with me? Are there other cases which are similar?

But women are seen as grown women when they are teenagers!

"Isn't it actually really common for those who abuse children to not be paedophiles?
They're actually sadists who just want to hurt someone and children are easiest"

There are also people who are just selfish and will take advantage of whoever is around and is weak.

How many men would be happy to leave their children over to all male nursery staff every morning?

Also what age is a 'grown woman' supposed to be?

She was described as an 'elderly 74 year old woman', nothing else

The second was about a vile racist comment towards the Obama's made by a man, he was described as a '70 year old business magnate

In the case of the second you can interpret that to be more critical than if they had said nothing. I'd actually like to know if "a business magnate" was making racist remarks. In the case of the former - possibly they had no other information.

women are supposed to be carers and nurturers and not behave like men. This view is signed, sealed and delivered by the main stream media

The principle that women behave better than men is pretty much signed, sealed and delivered on this forum too.

Does the phase 'grown man' exist? And what age is he?

But women are seen as grown women when they are teenagers!

Anyone over the age of 18 is an adult. I was at school at the time when it was common for most people to leave at 16. Plenty of people in my school year had left the parental home, were working and married by 18.

"Anyone over the age of 18 is an adult. I was at school at the time when it was common for most people to leave at 16."

When I was at school my 18-year old schoolmates still had to have a form signed for their parents to go on any trip (Form B it was called at the time).
When I went to university, the amount of my grant was determined by my parents' income, not my own.
To get married before 18 I think you need parental consent.

But generally yes, we are adults at 18.

The principle that women behave better than men is pretty much signed, sealed and delivered on this forum too.

That's not part of this discussion though.

If they had no further information, then why say 'elderly 74 year old woman'? She could have been a billionaire magnate who did great things. A 74 year old is not elderly. Donald Trump could well be described then as elderly during his term of office. However elderly statesman has a whole different meaning to elderly woman, despite similarities in age.

but he had some hold over them and they chose to do whatever it took to please him

I googled one of the women. Turns out she can apply for parole now, so there was a fair amount of stuff. From what I can gather, neither she, nor the other women, were abusing the children solely to gratify their desire to gratify the man.

"had some hold over" implies helpless passivity. But I haven't seen anything yet that suggests any of the women were reluctantly performing the abuse at the behest of Blanchard despite their own lack of sexual interest in children. More a case of they were doing it enthusiastically in part because of their sexual interest in children and in part because it cemented the relationship between the five of them. A relationship all five actively and freely took steps to establish, develop and maintain.

Not saying it doesn't happen, that people abuse primarily to gratify their desire to gratify another, despite their own lack of specific sexual interest in a child, animal, or other vulnerable person. But this specific case does not appear to have those characteristics. Or at least, it doesn't based on what I've just read about it.

If they had no further information, then why say 'elderly 74 year old woman

Possibly they are restricted in what they can say until family has been informed ? Although if that is the case it might have been better to not give a specific age.

Online, why preface 'elderly' with 74 year old woman? There was no need to do this.

They knew her age! They put 'elderly' in.

The use of elderly is patronising and ageist. There are any number of reasons why more information was not given.

In the case of the man making racist comments I think it is perfectly justified to report that not only were racist comments made but that they were made by a person who is rich and powerful.

Online, why preface 'elderly' with 74 year old woman?

Possible (but not definitely) because they are in possession of a more detailed description they have not printed.

My mother is 74. She is not elderly.

FIL was still working in his 80s. Nobody would have described him as elderly until about six months before he died in his late 80s.

MIL died at 74. She was elderly a good couple of years before her death. Time was really not kind to her in the way it has been to other people in the same age bracket. The same could be said of her cousin, who died at 72 and most would have described him as elderly at least 18 months before his death.

The description might be evidence of some kind of discriminatory mindset. But until the story develops it isn't possible to say with any real accuracy.

I would not have described the death of my father, at 72 as being 'elderly', nor my FIL who died at 70.

Nor would I describe the death of anyone year old as being 'elderly' because they had dementia.

What does 'elderly' mean? Are these people who are elderly subject to being pressed into doing things they don't want to do? Are they vulnerable?

Can we not recognise that there are certain people out there who will target those who are seen as vulnerable. Teenage girls by Boko Haram, young people by IS. Adults can be vulnerable too.

BTW my father looked very frail upon his death. He was always slim, so cancer didn't go down very well with him. He wasn't elderly though. Elderly denotes a certain vulnerability. Whereas being 70 and a business magnate is a sign of strength.

When does vulnerability end as a child and when does it begin again as an adult?

No one is denying agency, but is there ever a period throughout life when you are not vulnerable to influences?

Well if you wouldn't have described them as elderly, maybe they didn't appear so. Elderly IME tends to be used for people in their 70s and early 80s when they display a certain degree of fragility that is being attributed to their age.

I got the impression that you were unhappy because it was being used to describe a 74 year old woman. With the implication that had she been male it would not have been used. If it makes you feel any better I plugged "elderly man" 74 into a google news search and got pages and pages of results.

There's been a lot of discussion around Myra Hindley. The website www.searchingforkeith.com is managed by Alan Bennet the brother of the missing victim, Keith, and he has posted a lot about contact with Hindley regarding finding him.
The writer Carol Ann Lee also posts there. She wrote the biography "one of your own" which is very detailed and leaves the reader to consider the evidence of Hindleys culpability for themselves.
I have read somewhere but can't find a reference about the possibility that Hindley was also mentally ill. Ill try and and find the info.

I got the impression that you were unhappy because it was being used to describe a 74 year old woman. With the implication that had she been male it would not have been used. If it makes you feel any better I plugged "elderly man" 74 into a google news search and got pages and pages of results

Yes , that is what I took from it too. The 70 year old racist got his professional status being mentioned whereas she was just "a woman". And I think it was legitimate to point out he wasn't just any 70 year old.

I'm not sure one would have to look terribly hard to find similar ageist descriptions of men.

What is age is a grown woman ? What are you on about - do you think that "grown ups" don't exist and that people should not be responsible for the consequences of their actions if they were influenced by someone else ?

How many men would be happy to leave their children over to all male nursery staff every morning?

Exactly - not as many as would be so happy to hand then over to a nursery full of women. My point is not about the person doing the handing over, which was fairly obvious really.

www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=elderly%2074%20year%20old%20man

One mentions elderly man being pushed down the stairs, another website doesn't mention his elderly status, viagra, prostate cancer.

www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=elderly%2074%20year%20old%20woman

No mention of a pill for sexual prowess in these 74 year old women. But interesting that the 74 year old woman who ploughed into elderly people was confused.

A lot of confusion around the meaning of elderly here. I actually thought it just meant 'old', but are some people taking it to mean frail? I don't understand how a 74 year old OLD age pensioner is not elderly.