Shannon Mathews

[user1477282676]

This was a shocking case. The child was without a doubt a victim in terrible circumstances. Her own Mother stashing her away under the bed of her partner...drugging her, lying to the public and to her friends about such an awful thing.

But.

Does anyone here think that the press and the public demonised her in a far worse fashion than criminals who do worse have been?

She was pilloried, called terrible names...really made into a sort of figurehead for everything "unwomanly" when there are plenty of men who commit arguably worse crimes and who get away without the public disgrace.

Yes she did a truly awful thing but the fact that she was

A: A woman
B: Working Class
C: Ignorant
D: Unattractive

All added up to ensure that she was the perfect example of a demon woman. Can anyone expand or tell me more about this sort of thing? Do you agree with me? Are there other cases which are similar?

Tbf though, Karen could have easily been a murderer if Shannon had died during her kidnapping (which was possible).

That's one hell of a big 'if', twogoats.

What does occur to me however is that, had Karen Matthews been male, then the press and the public may have had a different reaction to the whole situation - ie. as a potential Josef Fritzl-style child murder waiting to happen. If you look at how she actually treated her child during that episode, it was pretty appalling stuff. Perhaps there was an element of inference that, because she was a mother the child couldn't possibly have come to any harm.

There's absolutely an interesting discussion to be had here, about how we react differently to men and women committing essentially the same crime. What a shame it's been buggered up by people on here trying to paint Myra Hindley as some kind of victim. ffffs.

No one here has accepted that women cannot be evil. Who said that?

The point of this discussion is to debate whether women are demonised when it comes to murder more than men.

I think what Hindley did was inexcusable. However, she is the devil, she is the one who, despite never actually killing anyone, is worse than Brady.

Perhaps she was a devil woman in disguise.

Not even murder as in the case of Matthews. But she is still the worst mother in the UK.

Are men now the default of evil? Or are women? Are humans equal in the capacity for evil?

Hindley is worse than Brady? Nobody ever says that, but plenty of people say she isn't as bad, so your argument doesn't work.
Her legal defense, created in cahoots with Brady's was that he was the sole perpetrator, and she stuck to that. The recording disproved that.
Yet people still believe her line "she didn't actually kill anyone" - no one can say that with certainty.
Brady gets just as much hate as Hindley did, rightly so.

Cliff Richard?? Elendon your posts are just st too surreal to continue debate with.

Also, you don't know that she never killed anyone.

You seem determined to get people to think Hindley's culpability is over-stated. Turning a blind eye? FFS. No one who ever had to listen to or read the tapes of her holding a little girl down will ever agree with you.

Your piss-taking with the Cliff Richard song is massively inappropriate.

Why is it inappropriate?

No one knows if she did kill anyone.

Again, what she did was inexcusable.

Elendon, what you're doing here is seriously not cool.

Tbf though, Karen could have easily been a murderer if Shannon had died during her kidnapping (which was possible).

No, it would be manslaughter.

That's enough now Elendon. Cracking jokes and linking to Cliff Richard videos whilst discussing a convicted child murderer is bang out of order.

Eledon, your post is offensive and inappropriate. Children were tortured and killed and their families have not been able to bury them. As a bereaved mother myself, I feel enormous empathy for the families. It is a sombre subject that should be approach with respect. I am certainly not prepared to engage with someone who thinks Hindley's crimes are appropriate material for a light hearted Cliff Richard reference.

We are all bereaved mothers. I'm a bereaved mum. As a child, I nearly lost my life to a bomb outside my home when living in a very naice 5 bedroom family home.

The posts serve to support the argument of the OP that try to discuss why women are treated more severely than men, leads to demonisation and evil.

Hindley was an evil woman and Brady was deranged and mentally ill. I get it. Women who choose to march for the vote were demonised too as leaving their children without food and clothed in rags.

Oh god now you're comparing Myra Hindley to suffragettes?! WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT??

We are all bereaved mothers

No, we aren't. Some of us are. I am sorry for your loss, I know how hard it is.

Women who choose to march for the vote were demonised too as leaving their children without food and clothed in rags.

How is this relevant? Those women were not neglecting their children so any criticism was unfair . Hindley (and Brady) did commit crimes so dreadful no criticism could be unfair.

You are so full of flippant whataboutery I was in two minds as to whether to even engage with your posts. I am upset by much of what you have written and will step away if you are offensively lighthearted again, to protect my own feelings.

Oh and by the way, no man has ever called me what Birdy did. All I did to dare was to discuss why women are more demonised than men for similar crimes. On an internet forum.

I can't even begin to imagine how hard it was for women to get the vote. Very brave women.

My historical research suggests that those women who fought for the vote, found greatest resistance from their own sex and peers, who didn't wish to upset the status quo. Sorry for upsetting the status quo on this topic. It won't change my belief that women who do similar crimes to men are more demonised.

Sigh.

It won't change my belief that women who do similar crimes to men are more demonised.

I think everyone agrees with that, just that Hindley is not an example of this.

Assertion:
Hindley turned a blind eye.

Evidence:
Ian Brady did the bad stuff.
The wife of John Christie.
A Cliff Richard video.
Suffragettes.

Conclusion:
Hatstand.

nauticant

Elendon you don't actually have to be the one who physically commits the violent act of ending the victims life, to be a murderer.
Just being present, involved in the planning, encouraging another partner, etc, are all part of the act of murder.
Myra Hindley was complicit in the murders therefore she is equally guilty, no matter which of them delivered the actual physical action (which we have no way of knowing).
I personally do agree with a previous poster that Hindley most likely wouldn't have killed without Brady, whereas he probably would have done with a different partner.That doesn't mean that she was manipulated by him though, simply that the darker perverted side of her personality was complemented and enhanced by his personality.
The fact remains that Hindley had a choice, she didn't have to go down that path but she did, willingly and deliberately.
She deserved everything she got from the press and public opinion, and much much more.