Feminisim and small penis jokes

[TomInAustin]

I just read an amazing article about how many small penis jokes feminists tell. That seems to fly in the face of anti-body-shaming. I would love to discuss.

I am a man cursed with the problem, i am a feminist and work with an organization that helps women entrepreneurs. I am curious if you know how painful it is for a man like me to hear?

I have never, in my 40 years of life as a biological female, heard another biological female make a small penis joke, let alone a feminist. In fact, I don't think I have ever heard a biological female make a comment about the size of a man's penis, and I've known some fairly no-holds-barred women.

In my experience, feminists are not remotely interested in men's penis sizes. I am not interested, my female friends are not interested, my female family members are not interested.

I don't support penis jokes (TBH, in general, small or otherwise... body function jokes are the domain of 6 year olds) - but I don't think it's feminisms problem to stop people making them - we're concentrating on the continuous commentary made on women for instance, see the DM sidebar of shame - how many penis size comments are there, vs. comments on women's bodies (generally being 'flaunted')

besides, the author of that article is definitely standing in a glass house - this is an example of their standup : - plenty of misogynist, stereotyped, bigoted opinions there

Can't for the life of me work out why this would be a feminist topic?

I have said small penis.

A driver in a fancy sports car was trying to intimidate me to pull over to let him go faster for the two chevrons between me and the car in front.

I may have hypothesised that the car was a penis substitute.

But was I making fun of his penis or his dickish driving?

Oh, FFS, I've read the article now.

Transwoman lectures feminists on how mean they are to men. Sigh.

That is not feminism, OP. So I think we might stop blaming feminists for this one. I'd say the main perpetrators of small penis jokes are other men, and probably some women too. Some of those women might be feminists. But the two are entirely unrelated. You're implying (boringly and predictably) that feminism is about putting men down.

It's not.

If I am going to insult a man I will call him a cuntless wonder.

Anyway.

I have heard many people use 'small dick' to describe the behaviour of men who exhibit hypermasculinity in oafish or exaggerated ways.

Here is an example

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1567945/Little-pinkie-road-safety-campaign-backfires.html

(Note how the man in the article was merely insulted - he then took it upon himself to be violent to the woman concerned - men might fear humiliation, women must fear their violence).

Note also - I don't think feminists had anything to do with this campaign, and it's clear that the OP has not been able to produce a single example of dem mean feminists laughing at men with small dicks.

That's different from making fun of actual men with small penises, and it only works because of the stock that men put in their own dicks. For example, masculinity is often associated with having sexual prowess and being virile, which is variously expressed as (for example) having a big dick, screwing lots of women (being a 'stud') and being able to get a woman pregnant just by looking at her. I've heard a man who expressed fear about something being referred to as a 'soft cock' (presumably because he's not a real man and can't get it up). I mean even the word 'impotent' means not being able to get an erection and being powerless.

If men with small dicks are tired of being supposedly made fun of then they need to start by challenging masculinity as it is practiced by men and by challenging men's own penile obsessions. Don't blame feminists and down come running to us wanting us to fight your battles for you.

I tried I really did but everyday feminism is pile of wank.
No people should make small dick jokes but I think in general it's not feminist that do it but rather men.

To be fair I'm a feminist and I've made small penis jokes.
When I was 13 and before I'd seen an actual penis.
It's clearly a massive problem and we should stoppit right now

I think feminists have bigger problems than the size of your dick, Tom.

I've seen loads of 'bet he's got a small penis' or tell him 'then he's got a tiny cock' etc etc on mumsnet.

Not said by anyone particularily identifying as feminists I shouldn't think.

I've heard the "do you think he's compensating for something" sort of joke - but mainly from my brother quoting Shrek. Aside from that, I can't think of a real life comment from anyone about penis size - I'm not saying it doesn't happen ever, but not in my circles.

IMO it falls into that vile "jokes about prison rape" category, or "man up" and "grow a pair". It says more about the ways that men shame fellow men than women tend to, and would be railed at on Mumsnet. Happy to be contradicted here of course.

Interesting that the article is by someone who perhaps heard/internalised this stuff more growing up with other blokes?

Birdy

I've seen it used, if a woman on here got street harrassed and was looking fir comfort, someone might say the perpetrators were stupid or ignorant, someone else might say bet they have tiny dicks or bet they would be rubbish in a fight.

Not jokes, though, whistling in the dark.

Klassy

That's a good point about it being ways men shame men.

I don't know if anyone else has said this on the thread, but it brings to mind this Margaret Attwood quote.

'Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them'.

This is slightly off topic Austin but I was amazed on a training course yesterday, in a largely but not solely female environment, when the trainer mentioned the name of an author on the subject and those who knew him started swooning and saying inappropriate things, things that would make me uncomfortable if a group of men were saying them about a woman. I think women, back in the day, used to say these kinds of things for other reasons, reasons that are no longer so broadly applicable, and it needs to be brought to everyone's attention.

i dont really think its up to feminists to fight the fight on penis jokes.

And yes, the biggest threat to me is men, and I know also that body shaming or ridiculing doesn't help us move forward with that problem.

From women I've heard more of the "it's not size that matters, it's what you do with it" type comment.

Small penis jokes make me uncomfortable because I'm a feminist.

I think feminism has,by now, clearly made the case that PHMT (patriarchy hurts men too) and that the troubles that men face (in this case the fear of not being manly enough) is down to archaic notions of masculinity.

So not something to lay at the door of feminism

if feminists start a worldwide campaign to end penis size jokes will men stop raping and murdering women? Because if that's all it takes I am right there (and why didn't men say so before??)

What do you mean duds ?

"Whistling in the dark"

YY, that is EXACTLY what it is. When a woman has been treated badly by her boss, for instance, other women will offer up, "I bet he has a tiny penis," because it's the only comfort they can give. I don't like it, not least because it achieves nothing.

I don't think it's unrelated to feminism actually, but only inasmuch as it emphasises women's powerless in some situations - where all they feel they can do to "get back" at a man is hypothetically shame him sexually. So not in the way the OP is getting at.

LessThan

It's interesting because when I grew up, experience was that women seem to like "masculine" men, maybe it's all to do with preference - but women like "rugged" men and all these cliches. e.g. I guess what I'm getting it is a small, slight man with no facial hair would probably think of himself as not meeting the "patriarchal standard" - he would have formed this impression whilst at school and seeing how the other boys were more popular with the girls. This is how it was at my school. Surely this state of affairs cannot be entirely blamed on men (or the patriarchy) brainwashing women into thinking they find certain types more attractive than others ? Like I guess women throw themselves at certain types of man, see the way they behave toward celebs etc.

I never heard a women make a joke about a man having a small penis, whether they do it in groups I don't know.

Fashion in mens bodies changes just as fashion in women's bodies does - just look at how hairy blokes are in 70 movies vs. now (beards excepted).

Slight blokes are pretty fashionable now I thought (I'm too old to be paying much attention to teenage boys, and mine are too young right now) - perhaps it's moved on again?

I think this is possibly where patriarchy and capitalism collide - patriarchy likes everyone to know where they are in the pecking order, capitalism wants you to buy your way up the ladder and always feel dissatisfied (hence, email marketing penis enlargers)

Just thinking back to my teens (old gimmer here) and the number of my school friends who found the sexually adnrogynous, gender-bending look that was fashionable then very sexy in a man. Sex appeal is to some extent socially constructed, and very flexible, and ultimately comes down to personality - if you carry off whatever you're doing with a knowing swagger (including wearing eyeliner and a shirt with ruffles of lace at the collar), you'll get away with it.

That quote just about sums it up:

'Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them'.