Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

[BeyondTheHarpy]

I know this has already been mentioned in the PL thread, but I thought it might be an idea to bring it to the attention of mners in a thread of its own.

After the PL debacle, there followed a thread in AIBU about toilet. On which this post appeared...
"I'm with you OP and I'm horrified by the transphobia on Mumsnet. I have done some work with Transmedia Watch who are trying to persuade MNHQ to treat transphobia as they would treat any other hate crime. I don't know what MNHQ have against the trans community or why they don't challenge the widespread belief that trans women are rapists in frocks who want to see fannies."

So, yeah, just letting you know that they are (allegedly) on the case with mnhq.

Alyosha

I'm still hoping that there might be some HCPs who can disabuse me of the smear test issue.

If there are any on here, can you tell me when a transwoman legally becomes a woman if she is included in the statistics for female only illnesses, like cervical cancer? And hopefully be able to refute another poster who thought their medical records prior to transition are wiped clear entirely and they start again with no record of prior heart disease, cancer etc?

I think it says a lot about the traction that this ideology has gained, that although I am hopefully sceptical (because it would be madness to feel differently), I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised if this was indeed the case.

This is one of the most horrible threads I've read on Mumsnet

I think you'll find there are some terrible threads about mother in laws.

Why?

You obviously didn't read about the woman who shat on her skirt.

FizzBombBathTime

Oh don't !!!

twattymctwatterson

Please, please tell us why? That is not sarcastic. I genuinely want to know if we have it wrong.

I think this thread has been pretty tame/relaxed/calm/reasonable

But then there have been quite a few people who have come on the thread, declared its awful/transphobic etc and then disappeared.

Wierd, that...

Am I being idealistic to think that in a decades time this will be easier, and that the tension comes from trying to resolve the position of people having late transitions? That children who have had support to resolve their gender identity will feel less threatening to women?

And what about the effects on these early transitioners who grow out of their dsyphoria? Studies have shown that 60-90% of "trans" children don't feel the same way as adults. Most turn out to be gay "cis" adults.

We don't even know the long term effects of the drugs used as puberty blockers. They are being used off label to treat gender dsyphoria. The trans movement is in for a huge backlash when these early transitioners become adults.

You know what, if I could say, 'Women and those who identify as women' for some circumstances (eg. people who commonly wear skirts, people who are invited to attend a lecture on .. I dunno.. something womanly, but not dependant on sex, I am dry on what that might be) - then I might not mind as much - it make it clear that it's women, and people who think they are women - ie. two distinct groups.

BUT. I can't. because the rhetoric is that transwomen are women, therefore using my first phrase is transphobic.

And I still would like to reserve the right for some activities to be women only, and I really don't think that is transphobic or unreasonable.

I totally agree Choc. I would be ok with that too. Because I need to make a distinction in many cases. And yes, some things need to be women only, or at least centre women rather than transwomen.

And I still would like to reserve the right for some activities to be women only, and I really don't think that is transphobic or unreasonable

The fact that we even have to ask that question is ludicrous, isn't it?

I'm tempted to change myself to some railings and just have a period.

And another one squeals "you're all weally howwibble" and runs away.
If they're serious about converting the world to their way of thinking, they're going to have to get a bit better at reasoned argument. Braver, too.

Concerning the OP. Do you think MNHQ are bowing to trans-activist pressure?

I don't think they are. They have their rules about personal attacks, but they allow free thought to flourish.

Indeed, Karlos. Given the horrible injustice apparently being perpetrated, you'd think they'd try a bit harder, wouldn't you?

I have been on many threads regarding trans issues.

What I've found is that many females have looked back to their previous/near puberty years and have shared their fears of how they felt at approaching puberty.

It is scary! My experiences were along the lines of;

Fuck me I'm growing boobs .
How big /small will they be?
Feck I have to ask my mum for money/ take me for a bra. Nope too embarrassed.
Periods - what if this happens in class? How can I prepare for this? Will people laugh?
Tampons or pads? If pads, will they show through my clothes, will Tampons leek?
How do I speak to my teacher if my period begins while in class?
How will I take part in gym/swimming?
Will they all know I am on my period if I sit out?

I could go on and on...

Point is puberty is scary, but we figure it out in the end.

Still Spartacus

I don't think they are. They have their rules about personal attacks, but they allow free thought to flourish.

I am really uncomfortable with the fact that apparently calling someone a misogynist is now deemed a "personal attack."

My question whether the same applies to "racist" was not answered, or if it was, I didn't see the answer.

VestalVirgin

I may be wrong, but I suspect they are trying to allow free thought to flourish, whilst having to rebut accusations of trans phobia or any other -ism. In my opinion, the more we can help them to allow this, the better.

I agree it is wrong for us not to be able to call somebody a misogynist, if they are, but on the other hand if you want to be able to call out the behaviour, it is useful for us to be able to say the behaviour of this person is misogynistic. It says the same thing, but remains within the guidelines.

Let's face it we want to be able to continue to say it.

Nah, we want an end to misogynistic behaviour so we don't have to talk about it but in the meantime it's critical that we can label the problem (even if apparently calling a spade a spade is unacceptable).

I agree, though, that if this is the balancing act that MNHQ have come up with then it is at least a lot better than more heavily moderated sites

I think (I hope) that was just because PL was invited to blogfest and that if we come across other people we consider misogynists we are allowed to call it out.

I would also take a guess that as blogfest has now passed, PL just counts as a regular person again. Then should PL do anything disagreeable while not under the wing of mn, we would be able to call it so.

I wouldn't mind betting that PL cleans up her act after that.

Just count yourselves lucky you have never had to deal with the complications a trans person has.

We really do live in a post truth society, don't we.

Try telling that to child brides, victims of FGM, former inmates of the Magdalene Laundries, trafficked girls and women - the list of inequalities and outrages perpetrated against women and girls is endless.

I have a huge issue with the unnecessary complication in her life that my DD aged 15 might have before she finishes up in high school, where she may be required to disrobe and shower in a locker room in front of someone with a penis. It is my opinion that it should be up to her to decide when or if she does that, not the decision of the Department of Justice, enforced by her school administration.

Girls in schools in the US are the largest class of people who will be affected when/if the protection of 'gender' comes before the protection of the female sex. The entire edifice of Title IX will come crashing down. In the absence of the Equal Rights Amendment, which will be even deader in the water than it is now if gender is accepted as a category instead of sex, Title IX is all American girls and university women have to level the playing field.

Acceptance of gender instead of sex as a legal classification will mean the erasure of biological girls and women as a legal class throughout society.

Just count yourselves lucky you have never had to deal with the complications a trans person has.

And furthermore, it is not up to women to pick up the pieces and make life better for men whose lives have been made miserable for other men. The problem is men's.

By accepting as 'women' men who just don't feel like men, we are in effect accepting the hyper masculine version of 'men'. We are accepting it because we are agreeing that men shouldn't present either physically or in any other way as feminine. We are condoning the hyper masculinity that actually creates huge problems for us. Hyper masculinity complicates our lives enormously.

And we are also accepting that the definition of women is 'not men', which very clearly falls far short of what we actually are. We are not the sum of our differences from men.

How the heck can 'gender' be a legal classification when (as I understand) theres dozens of 'genders' nowadays? I really wish that people would stop using gender as a polite euphemism for sex. Especially forms - esp the MN profile. c'mon, a parenting site of all places should be rooted in biological reality fgs!