Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

[BeyondTheHarpy]

I know this has already been mentioned in the PL thread, but I thought it might be an idea to bring it to the attention of mners in a thread of its own.

After the PL debacle, there followed a thread in AIBU about toilet. On which this post appeared...
"I'm with you OP and I'm horrified by the transphobia on Mumsnet. I have done some work with Transmedia Watch who are trying to persuade MNHQ to treat transphobia as they would treat any other hate crime. I don't know what MNHQ have against the trans community or why they don't challenge the widespread belief that trans women are rapists in frocks who want to see fannies."

So, yeah, just letting you know that they are (allegedly) on the case with mnhq.

YetAnotherSpartacus

I read on a previous thread that pharmaceutical companies are highly invested in transgenderism.

Which sounds horribly cynical but it's making me wonder.

^KateInKorea*

I also found an article, before the election, where he was saying people should use the bathroom of their biological sex ! ( can't find it, I've tried).

So I'm guessing he will just go with which ever way the wind blows to his advantage.

I don't buy into the big pharma conspiracy theory myself - when I look at the cost of synthetic hormones (you can find the prices in the British Formulary), the synthetic versions are basically "cheap as chips." (My HRT for menopause symptoms is less than the cost of the prescription charges, for instance).

Think that may have been me, Datun. A link to an article on the NHS Choices website. It reports concerns about the fact that a majority of those who decide the classifications are linked to the pharmaceutical industry.

DSM5 has also been criticized for being politically motivated, with TRAs (among other pressure groups) making demands that suit their agenda rather than reflect practice.

TRAs are enthusiastic about child transition because it supports the "born this way" narrative that did so much to further the LGB cause.

Prawnofthepatriarchy

Yeah I saw that, but this was several months ago. Giving figures about funding. You had to click on a link of a link, I've tried to find it though but can't.

My take on this is I wish we were much more gender neutral eg why does my passport have to give my gender? And if we could all wear what we like, many fewer gendered clothes (I was very much a tom boy as a teenager etc) we would all be a lot happier. In general I avoid all drugs as what is natural tends to be best in life but if men or women want surgery or to take drugs or wear what they like good luck to them.

However I want total freedom of speech. MN should never give in to men bullying women into what we say. There are more than enough places on line where women can hardly get a word in edgeways as men stop them speaking (and in real life). We must not let it happen here.

Be kind. Listen. But be entitled to express your views.

Your passport gives your sex.

We could be gender neutral if we dismantled the patriarchy. The people who are invested in keeping that system strong must be challenged. That includes transactivists.

I really do hope MN stand firm. I did suspect something may be going on behind the scenes with the whole deleting people calling out misogyny thing. It was rather odd.

MN is in a terrible position here, but they could very well be the tipping point. This site is huge. I do wonder if trans-media watch will have the guts to go to the press about this 'transphobia'. Doing so would be a disastrous move on their part, but if MN stand firm it may be the only option left. Getting this out into the open will encourage more people to scour MN (more revenue also... ) for these apparent 'transphobic' posts. And in turn alert more people to exactly what is going on/being proposed right now. I believe that the majority will not see the posts as transphobia at all, if they actually read the full thing rather than screaming bigot and running off as some seem to do..as they are not actually transphobic one bit. I have seen the odd transphobic post but it has been deleted swiftly. MN does NOT allow transphobia. Sooo many people still think a transwoman is someone who has gone full hormone therapy and SRS and 'lives as a woman' which is why the immediate reaction is sympathy and second tends to be 'you horrible bigots'. They do not even know that 'transgender' has changed meaning completely to the point where even I am technically classed as 'trans' for not having any gender identity. I simply feel like me, I do not feel like a woman at all. I AM a woman, but I feel like a person and thats it. I do not know anything of this mystical 'womanly feeling' and therefor I am trans.

MN will be a very hard nut to crack, as most on here are parents who WILL (when presented with the truth) see how damaging the current narrative is to children. When 2 year old kids are being used as pawns, parents will wake up, I do have faith in that. Infact so many people I know had their 'tipping point' fairly recently, with the story about the child being forced to 'be' a girl against his wishes. MN is an especially hard place to bleat on about 'gendered' differences given campaigns such as 'let toys be toys' which go entirely against the trans narrative, yet are almost universally accepted by members on here. You would be hard pushed to find many members who agree that there are 'girls toys' or 'boys toys' yet children as young as 2 are 'trans' and sent down that route for playing with toys associated with the opposite sex. Its just mental.

As for medical stuff..I find it insane that this trans thing may be screwing medical statistics. I really do thing trans peoples details should be recorded completely separately from others. This way we could also learn more about the effects long term hormone uses have, and blockers. If we just pretend the drugs aren't involved, the research will never be there.

As for a world where gender doesn't exist, that sounds lovely. But accepting this whole trans thing is NOT a way to do that, infact the entire trans-narrative enforces 'gender' even more. I agree that in a world where men and women were truly equal, none of this would matter one bit. But we do not live in that world and never will unfortunately.

Anyway, I waffled a lot there. But again I really really hope MN stands firm on this.I find the current rules fine. They delete transphobia as they should. They just do not seem to agree that any questioning/debating of the trans narrative is transphobia. This is a new large problem, any criticism or anything less than full acceptance of every issue...is transphobic.

Amazing post monkey.

I find it staggering that (in the US anyway) you can change the sex noted on your birth cert, making a lie out of your entire life up to that point. An online friend's daughter has done that at the age of sixteen. Whatever about a sixteen year old girl announcing that she wants to be male and injecting herself with testosterone, altering her birth cert to retrospectively change her name and sex is just insane in its attempt to negate reality.

I really do think that most people here are sympathetic towards gender-dysmorphia sufferers. I know I am.

Hopefully, we can do a campaign to show our support for genuine GDS.

Bloody well said Monkey.

I really do think that most people here are sympathetic towards gender-dysmorphia sufferers. I know I am.

Definitely. I think most people off here are too. Granted I know only 2 transwomen but they both say they have not had much abuse through their lives and most people are fully supportive. Obviously any abuse if wrong, but its heartening to hear that their experiences are mostly positive.

I did not ever hear any debate about transwomen using the female bathrooms and such until recently. And people knew it was happening and did not care. The issues have only arisen now because of the shouty transactivists and the angle the media are playing in this (first 'female' frontline soldier anyone?). I think genuine transpeople would be as disgusted as I am at the mere thought of lesbian women being called transphobic and pressured into sleeping with people who have penises. Its just vile. Women being told they must centre men in their feminism and so on. It is misogyny at its finest. But because these perverts have latched onto those who genuinely do need sympathy, help and understanding...its hard to challenge without coming across as bigoted.

Genuine transsexual people I have never ever had an issue with. I have attempted to make this clear in my posts, I am unsure if my position has been as clear as I would like it to be as I am not the best with words. But I do not believe you can be 'trans' without sex-dysphoria. I do not believe in female penises nor telling lesbians they must accept them. I do not believe fully intact males are women. I do not believe in rapists being sent to womens prisons as they have a 'feeling' in their head. I do not believe in pink and blue brains. I never will. If saying this makes me a 'transphobe' then I will honestly wear that label with pride.

I will stand with genuine trans people and support their human rights til the end. I will do what I can to help them access treatments they feel they need, and I will always treat them with respect. They are no less a person than I am. But I refuse to follow the current narrative that I feel is damaging to females and children. I do not believe you can change sex. I do believe there are people out there with conditions that make them feel they should be the opposite sex and if they (as adults) chose to go down this route, I hope it makes them happy. I also hope there comes a time when people can wear whatever clothes they want to, do whatever the fuck they want to do without anything being tied down to the two sexes. I will not throw my fellow females under the bus in favour of males who kill us in droves and abuse us because of our biology. And yes, I know not all males do this. But statistics tell me I and other females should fear males, and (much to the disgust of those who believe in gender roles) I am a fan of mathematics.

This is my firm position. I do not think this is transphobic. But no doubt some people will still think it is. I give not a fuck.

shins

"I find it staggering that (in the US anyway) you can change the sex noted on your birth cert, making a lie out of your entire life up to that point."

Not sure if this is a similar thing?

"1. Overview

Apply to the Gender Recognition Panel for a Gender Recognition Certificate if you want your acquired gender to be legally recognised in the UK."

www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate/overview

"If you get a full certificate

You’ll be sent information on:

how to get a new birth certificate, marriage certificate or civil partnership where appropriate

who you must tell about your gender change

Your pension and benefits may be affected."

www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate/what-happens-next

Are the originals then sealed (as in adoption)?

Great posts, WankingMonkey.

I was unsure (as a person brought up to be accepting of everyone is generally and naively) until my sister pointed out that theoretically the way TA's want it, is if the next time I'm flying from Heathrow and I need to be searched, after setting off the electronic doorway, I have to allow a biological male search me intimately just because they say they identify as female. Despite having a penis and to all intensive purposes being a male.
That if the law allows I would considered wrong for refusing to allow my young DD to be searched by such a person.

I am also Spartacus (a new Spartacus)

Manumission

Having Googled it seems that birth certs cannot be changed - the mention of them on the .gov website was a bit misleading. It was pure coincidence that I saw that page yesterday when I was looking up how to order a copy of a birth certificate.

www.equality-network.org/your-rights/gender-recognition/

"Changing the gender on a UK driving licence or UK passport does not change the person’s legal gender. A person’s legal gender is tied to their UK birth certificate.

The Gender Recognition Act 2004 created a process to enable transsexual people to get their UK birth certificates and legal gender changed. The transsexual person can apply to the Government’s Gender Recognition Panel for a Gender Recognition Certificate. If they are successful in their application, the law will recognise them as having all the rights and responsibilities appropriate to a person of their acquired gender."

From CAB

Who is a transsexual person?

A transsexual person is someone who:

-wants to change their gender, whether they go through with the medical treatment or not
-has had a gender reassignment
-is undergoing medical treatment to reassign their gender
-has started the medical process but has decided to stop it
-has decided to adopt the identity of their chosen gender without undergoing a medical gender reassignment
-wants to dress as their chosen gender, all the time or only occasionally.

"Gender reassignment is a personal process rather than a medical one. You don’t have to undergo medical treatment and you don’t have to be under medical supervision."

It goes on to say you can't be transsexual just as a joke though - ie
on a stag night.

But according to the last bullet point, as anyone can do it on the odd occasion, I'm not sure they understand the meaning of the word joke.

I simply cannot comprehend how ANYONE could think this would not be taken advantage of and/or be a disadvantage to women everywhere.

VoodooPeople

Doesn't that mean, that just changing your driving license won't to get you a different birth certificate. But you can get the birth certificate if you follow the other criteria?

-wants to dress as their chosen gender, all the time or only occasionally.

So a bloke who likes wearing dresses sometimes is in the same category as someone with serious body dysphoria?

Datun

Looks like you can get a short form birth cert with your 'new gender' on it

"What happens if you change gender

If your gender change is approved, you’ll get a new, free short birth certificate with your new gender on it."

"The original information will always be shown in the register. After the correction has been authorised, a note will be added to the margin of the register. This will explain what the correct information is and when the correction was made.

All full birth certificates that are issued from this time will include the note in the margin.

Short birth certificates only include the child’s details and won’t have a note in the margin - they’ll just include any correct new details.

www.gov.uk/correct-birth-registration/what-corrections-can-be-made

Looked on the Mermaid site - must admit the first thing that struck me was a spelling mistake (yes, I'm a pedant)

"Terratories" pfffft

Seems to confirm that if you get a full gender recognition certificate then yes, you get a new birth cert with your fake 'new' gender on it.

I was fucking fuming at this bit though. Long live the patriarchy!

Peerage, dignities and titles of honour

"The descent of peerages, dignities and titles of honour is not affected by the issuing of a GRC. For example, a peerage that is only handed down the male line can be inherited by a trans woman but not by a trans man, regardless of whether either of them have a GRC."

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/assets/media/gender%20recognition%20guide.pdf