Anyone know of any stats on name changing after marriage?

[anotheronebitthedust]

I'm at the age (28) when facebook suddenly makes the change from photos of nights out to endless wedding albums - but scrolling through it today I suddenly realised that pretty much every single woman close to my age I have as a 'friend' on fb has changed their name after their wedding. Not most, not even almost all - every single one!

Most of these friends are from school/uni/work/travelling so are within 2-3 years of my age, some left school at 16 but majority have at least a degree, lots with masters, post grads, etc. They come from, and now live, all over the UK, so some still in the smallish town I grew up in but many others from all over the place. Several either have previously, or currently do, live abroad. So a fairly wide spectrum of my age group.

It really surprised me. When I was in my late teens I thought it was getting more and more common a) not to marry at all in a ltr and b) not to take the husband's name. However in the last few years it seems like both trends have completely reversed and I wondered if anyone knew of any stats that back up if my personal experience is/isn't reflective of the UK generally.

I'm not necessarily bothered by it - although some of the reasons I had from the friends I asked about it did make me ) I would imagine most of them have made reasoned decisions why they name changed and are happy with it. It just struck me that if it was a true choice, then the likelihood would be that not everybody would happen to make the same choice and that therefore, for whatever reason, perhaps it isn't as much of an actual choice... - I know this is incredibly badly expressed but hope you get the gist of what I mean!

"The way that I see it, is that the simple fact of having a free-choice, makes any choice made a feminist one. "

Really?!

If I appoint a 30 something man over a 30 something woman to a job because I think she's more likely to take time off for pregnancy, is that a feminist choice because I'm a woman?

What if a woman boss decided to pay some less for the same work-is that. a feminist choice? To not allow her daughters to go to university because they'll "just get married" Feminist choice? To make her daughters lhelpnwith housework but not her sons....?

I could go on...........

MyWine,

Did your husband change his name? No.
Did he give up work to have children? No.
Did he do the majority of the housework? No.
Was he financially dependent on you? No.
Does he shave his legs? No (I'm guessing).

These are all decisions that he freely made/makes. That must make him a feminist surely? By your definition.

And if those choices don't make him a feminist, why not?

Do you think that the society and culture influences any of our choices at all? If we were free from any outside influences then you would reasonably expect that 50% of men would change their names on marriage, 50% of men would give up work to have children, 50% of men would do the majority of the housework, 50% of men would be financially dependent on women, 50% of men would shave their legs.

50% of men don't do these things. Why do you think that is, given that men have these freely available choices?

Some women freely choose to discriminate against others in the workplace - is that feminist?

A non-feminist choice is one that perpetuates inequality between men and women.

It's funny that prior to marriage I was a Ms with a double barrelled name and now I'm married I'm a Mrs with my husband's surname.
What is it about marriage that makes you do non feminist things? I know some people view marriage itself as non feminist but I don't see it that way, but why do feminist women happily take on non feminist attitudes when it comes to some things? Reading this has made me see that I could have asked my husband to take my name and I should have put up with the fact that I always found a double barrelled name a total faff (cue sarcy comment from doinit )

When I lived in Germany everyone was a Frau and I enjoyed that. I liked the fact that my name didn't prove what I am.
However becoming a teacher in a secondary school- I was relieved to change to Mrs soandso just so kids stopped calling me 'Miss'!

Thankfully there are no gatekeepers to feminism. For sure it is possible to be a feminist and make non feminist choices. However I think there is still a certain amount of misplaced principled feminism here. Having your father's name does not make you more of a feminist than having your husband's. If it does it is merely a marginal step up from what has gone before.

Surely a feminist principle would be female generated family names for female children or both members of a couple choosing their family combined family name. Just because you are keeping your male generated birth name does not mean you are making the world more equal in any serious way. I think this one needs a much more radical approach to get the equality that is being sought here.

It's not your father's name. It's your name.

I am actually astonished that some women apparently think so little of themselves they don't even think they have a name.

All those political rallies about governments doing things " not in my name" - never realised only the male contingent were entitled to say that.

Lass The name did not just magically appear out of the ether when I was born. It was, like the vast majority of children given from my father's family. It makes no sense to pontificate about the patriarchal roots of taking your husband's name and not acknowledge the origins of family names.

I acknowledge that many surnames are rooted in men's names or occupations.

What I don't see is why that means my surname isn't mine?

If my first name was Georgina, would that also not be mine?

I think it is pretty radical to suggest that men own all surnames.

And that women's surnames are those that are bestowed on them by men until they pass to another man.

And if I decide to become Katie Brown (a surname in neither of our families) then surely Brown is just another man's name by this logic?

What is a poor old feminist to do?

My2 - in all likelihood the reason a name comes from the father was that the mother had already given up her own surname in favour of the father's. The predominance of children being named after their father will not go away while so many women give up their own surname.

Most do seem to do it now.

I didnt because it was a large amount of admin to no benefit. No feminist reason!

It is a bit much to insist that unless a name "springs from the ether" that it doesn't belong to the female person it was given to.

Nobody is denying that surnames have usually been derived from men's names in the British Isles.

But that doesn't mean that women have no names.

It doesn't mean that only their husband's names matter enough to be passed on to their children.

The only people pretending to argue for radical solutions are the ones insisting that it's too late now and unless we develop a whole new woman's alphabet we might as well just recognise that our names and identities belong to men and that's the end of it.

It also did not occur to me to change my name 30 years ago when I got married. Our children have DH's surname. I have never had a problem with their names being different. With so much divorce and remarriage, it's very common for family members to have different surnames. Also there are other ways to pass my name down. I have one of those Scottish surnames that works as a first name; I'm American and it's quite usual to use surnames as first names for girls as well as boys, especially in the South.

What I don't see is why that means my surname isn't mine?

No, me neither.

The only people pretending to argue for radical solutions are the ones insisting that it's too late now and unless we develop a whole new woman's alphabet we might as well just recognise that our names and identities belong to men and that's the end of it.

"Pretending" being the operative word.

What is a poor old feminist to do?

Well, you could always become Kidnapped X. However, that looks like you are related to everyone else who replaced their surname with an X to signal it is not theirs, so not optimal.

Or you could make up a surname that is definitely female.

Mary Midwife
Gina Governess
Wendy Washerwoman

Or just use your mother's first name and stick a "daughter" on it.

Mary Annasdaughter, or alternatively, Mary, daughter of Anna.

@specialsubject: Actually, prioritizing your convenience and comfort over patriarchal tradition is a much more feminist reason than "because I happen to find his name prettier".

I am often surprised to see surnames that one would think any person in their right mind would have gotten rid of as soon as the law was passed that you could take the woman's name. I fully expected those names to go extinct immediately. There are dentists called "Dr. Pain" and there are even worse names - who would want to employ a Mr. Lazy? Sure, people will try not to discriminate against you, but life is still easier with a nicer last name.

People still very often decide for the husband's name even if that name is horribly ugly. That is not convenient for the wife, it does not get her a prettier name, it only serves patriarchy.

Having your father's name does not make you more of a feminist than having your husband's.

I don't have either my father's name or my husband's name. I have my name.

The only people pretending to argue for radical solutions

Excuse me? pretending to argue. I personally was not pretending to argue. How very rude Doingit Do you only wish to hear views that exactly accord with your own?

This thread was very aggressive and dismissive from the start of one thing deeply rooted in the patriarchy being so much better than another thing deeply rooted in the patriarchy. That argument is inconsistent and does not hold up to scrutiny.

You really think that men own all surnames, 2cent?

And women's surnames don't belong to them at all?

Kidnapped I think the origin of mine and most other people's surnames comes from the patriarchal notion that children are possessions of their fathers and that female children then become possessions of their husband on marriage. Both equally founded in the patriarchy.

I chose to change my name on marriage - I know I made a non-feminist choice, but I'm fine with that

BTW Baxter is another female-derived name (a female baker)

Sure but if ALL surnames are tainted with associations of patriarchy, then that association should be equally problematic for Peter Jones as it is for Laura Jones. We should be ditching ALL current surnames then, not just pushing the problem onto women.

Peter Jones should be disgusted at the patriarchal notions and rush to find himself a new name, untainted by past associations. A completely new name - Blobhead or something else untainted.

The reality is that Peter Jones will never give a thought to any of this, never mind changing his name. He can marry 10 different women in his lifetime and he won't contemplate a new surname. All his 6 children will bear his surname.

Meanwhile Laura Jones becomes Laura White on marriage, then Laura Jones again when she gets divorced and then Laura Smith when she remarries a second time. And she'll have the attendant hassle of name-changing and having children with different surnames to her.

This is precisely why things are unequal at the moment.

It's not easy.

I still have my maiden name on my passport as the priest who married us spelled my husbands name wrong on the wedding certificate. The priest has since gone AWOL. One day I will work out how to fix this but the register office are flummoxed. So I'm half and half really.

Thankfully there are no gatekeepers to feminism.
It is abundantly clear from many of the responses on this thread that there most definitely are.

I always consider myself to be a feminist, everywhere apart from on MN, where I am a sheep who makes non/anti-feminist choices.

Oh well!

It is always women who have the hassle, isn't it? Hassle resulting from changing their names, hassle resulting from not changing their names.

Men just sail right along with no bugger ever questioning their right to their own names.