General Trans Discussion Thread

[IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat]

I seem to be hitting #PeakTrans on a daily basis now and thought it would be useful to have another general thread to discuss/post/share

If you haven't seen Magdalen Berns' recent blog post it's really worth a look

'Diagnosing via email'

If a man is dressing as a woman but has no plans to have a sex change then he is not a transwoman but a cross dresser surely. Or even a drag queen.

'Transgender' is now drawn so widely that literally anyone can now be a 'transwoman'. See, eg, this graphic or the tale of 'GrrlAlex'.

Forgot the graphic!

Hi Miranda. I missed you on the Blogfest thread (#1) but wanted to applaud your analysis of PL's MO. It's gone strangely quiet, but hopefully someone will be along to update in due course.

That is a great article, wiggly. Some of the parallels are very intriguing.

I think that the tide of sympathy and support for transwomen is going to swing even further in their favour with the election of Trump and Pence. It looks like they may repeal Obama's dreadful Title X bill that allows schoolkids to use the toilet of their gender. Which is a good thing for women and girls, but will be touted as transphobic and oppressive. There will be widespread pressure on the next president who comes in to repeal it.

I think it's anyone's guess where we will be with the issue by the time the next president comes in.

I don't think trump or pence care too much about trans issues or title X. Trump has already said that trans people should whatever bathroom they want and Caitlyn Jenner would be welcome to use the ladies in Trump Tower. Pence has said that schools should be able able to decide for themselves their bathroom policy.

There is no doubt that women are going to be the ones who will suffer the most during this presidency if access to abortion and contraception is further restricted.

I see the Guardian has published information in that article which I was remonstrated for by anonymous Mermaids posters on here. Namely that parent members of Mermaids obtain blockers and hormones on the internet for their children.

tuba do you have a link ?

Hope you're doing ok.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/13/transgender-children-the-parents-and-doctors-on-the-frontline
Its the one I posted earlier I think. datun

Yes that's the one. The posters on Mumsnet from Mermaids who said I was giving personal information about Susie and Jackie Green obviously did not realise anything I said was available via the internet. I did say some parents who joined Mermaids during the time I was there were given information about, and were encouraged to obtain, medication from the internet. It is confirmed in that Guardian article that parents are obtaining blockers and hormones online. I know of at least one parent still within Mermaids whose child was discharged by The Tavistock for doing just that. Again, I'm not revealing details about individuals. I would not do that. So if any Mermaids people are reading your secrets are safe with me. I find it encouraging that Polly Carmichael is sticking with 16 being the minimum age for cross sex hormones, despite parents pushing for them to be prescribed earlier. If the private doctor in Wales intends to continue to do that despite the risk to herself then OK. It is not OK for the only NHS GID clinic to do this as that would risk it being closed down which would be wrong. I still believe there should be someone looking into Mermaids though.

Datun I am OK thanks. I believe I did the right thing in turning down the journo who was contributing to the Observer article and contacted me by PM through Mumsnet asking for info. I am relieved that I am no longer connected with the organisation.

Is there a good resource that explains how transgender people know they feel like they are the wrong gender? I'm really confused by this tbh as I don't really believe males feel/do x and females feel/do y and that's how it is so you have to change the person to conform to the gender of the behaviour. I'm not intending to be offensive btw I just can't see the logic.

I thought the interview with Poppy's Mum was interesting, although I recognise it will have been trimmed down from word count and steps may have been missed. It goes from her concern on reading about high suicide rates in kids with GID unsupported at home to full social transition and presenting as a girl at school. Is there a stage in between where identity and concepts like gender are explored in therapy to help the young person come to terms with who they are & to consider whether they can live in their own skin as their born sex? There seems to be quite a headlong rush to a fixed sense of identity in presentation at a really young age. I had a flatmate in uni aged 18 who was still trying to work out who she was & went through a number of experimental phases before things settled down in her 2nd year. I find it hard to understand how things can be decided so young. My 11 yo is still working out who he is. I can't bear the thought of boxing someone in so young. It seems so sad. There's plenty of time to explore later on.

It must be tortuous for parents being told they must make drastic decisions for their children when the outcome isn't guaranteed and may not help.

handbag As far as I'm aware gender dysphoria has been the medical marker to consider children trans. And their desire to transition has to be 'persistent, consistent and insistent'.

tuba. You did the right thing. There is no reason for you to have to stick your head further above the parapet.

I don't trust journalists to portray an accurate picture of what one has said, anyway.

Jed There will only be a stage where identity and gender concepts are explored if the parents seek that type of conselling prior to any social transition. CAMHs are they only option for this in the NHS and our experience with CAMHS was that they knew little about Gender dysphoria. But that was over five years ago. Thankfully my son was referred by CAMHs to a NHS consultant Paediatric Psychiatrist who had training in Gender Dysphoria in under 18s.
So if parents don't know where to turn for professional advice and the waiting list to see the Tavistock is very long then the only place they can go is to groups like Mermaids and Gendered Intelligence. When I joined Mermaids the focus was on how to get treatment as soon as possible for children. There was no suggestion that children could be helped to explore other options. As I left over two years ago that may have changed however on reading that Guardian article it does look as though the priority is still getting medication ASAP even if it is necessary to go private.

Just in case I am jumped on again by Mermaids people I will say that my son was prescribed hormones privately at the age of 16 years 4 months. However he had been fully assessed by the Tavistock before he was 16 and was on the waiting list to see the NHS endocrinologist with a view to starting hormone treatment. That waiting list was around 7 months long. So we went to a private doctor to start the treatment which was possible as he had a full report giving the diagnosis from the Tavistock.

I would in no way have been happy to agree to my son taking hormones before the age of 16. But I don't know how I would have felt if he had been telling me he felt as though he should be male from a very young age, rather than at 14 and a half. Maybe I would have felt like those parents of young children in these articles.

Thank you Tubas - it is helpful to have that additional context, although it reinforces the sadness I expressed earlier.

Glad you and your child found a way through this too.

There's a great analysis of the re: J case on the 4th Wave Now website:

The boy who ‘lived in stealth’: Judge challenges ’emerging orthodoxy’

That was very interesting miranda.

Especially "Part 2 in this series will take a deeper look at Mermaids and the overall state of affairs regarding “transgender children” in the United Kingdom."

I would love to see a debate involving The Tavistock, social services, Mermaids, mental health professionals, genuine transwoman (like you), a TRA and feminists.

One from each group. Just to sort the bloody wheat from the chaff and get some answers re stats, science and ethics and agendas.

Also this was something that wasn't widely known. The main judge also contributed to a book about sex families.

The judges who have dealt with J’s case are among the top authorities in the country on family and children’s law as it relates to transgender people. When Mermaids and its supporters call Mr Justice Hayden ‘transphobic’ and ‘uninformed’, they show up their own ignorance and prejudice.

I'd love to watch that debate Datun. It would be great to see a balanced discussion with fair representation from each interested party. Can't see it happening though.

*SAME sex families, not sex families

The newest Loose Women panelist is a trans-woman. This should be interesting.