woman loses residency of son she was raising as daughter

[BombadierFritz]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3859618/You-caused-son-great-harm-insisting-raising-girl-Boy-seven-sent-live-father-mother-raised-daughter.html

hmmm. ok so its daily mail reporting but I am conflicted
perhaps good if child was being pushed into something he wasnt
but wtf with the boringly stereotypical insistance on the type of toys played with

nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/07/whats-missing-from-the-conversation-about-transgender-kids.html

This article is worth reading and links to several studies that all found the same thing i.e. that the majority of trans children desist and grow up into gay or lesbian adults if allowed to have a natural puberty.

Afaik the 80% desistance figure is taken from a meta analysis of several studies?

www.sexologytoday.org/2016/01/do-trans-kids-stay-trans-when-they-grow_99.html?m=1

To be fair, I'd imagine the desistance rate may be lower amongst mermaid users, and those children whose parents are very supportive. For a teenager who has transitioned socially it would be extremely hard to change their mind.

"Yup. If by 'desist' you mean 'die'. Because that is also likely."

Oh yes, because we all know & heard of so many hundreds of children who wanted to be the other sex who then committed suicide.

Oh wait

We really don't.

All this talk of transing children reminds me of this rather nice YouTube video I came across

"I think it's very likely that the child will desist after puberty

Yup. If by 'desist' you mean 'die'. Because that is also likely......."

We say 'desist' (and quite possibly be lesbian or gay), but TransMum (who AFAIK isn't actually a mum but a late transitioning father based on their earlier posts, please correct me if I'm wrong), would instead rather keep posting the frankly dangerous (as in encouraging transkids to suicide) lie that without transition, they'll top themselves. With a HuffPost article entered as evidence...............

Who does it serve if we believe this nonsense? Not the kids themselves, who even if they know their own minds as much as non-trans kids, at that age..................

This just looks more and more like adult transitioners in effect grooming vulnerable teenagers and their parents so they can get what they never had the chance to get -- transition earlier with a more acceptable cosmetic outcome, and validation of the 'born this way' narrative.

Cote

Just like all those many 3 year olds that cut their genitals off with scissors because they couldn't deal with being the sex they were. Oh wait, they were all miraculously intercepted at the last second.

I don't know what kind of person would try and frighten parents by using untrue information about suicide rates

I am amazed at the knowledge trans children are born with
Gender norms vary over time and place yet they are born knowing that the pink sippy cup indicates a girl
That pirate parties are for boys. That only girls wear princess dresses
How do they know this from 18 months old?
From their environment of course including parental expectations of each sex

I do. People suffering from narcissistic personality and other cluster B disorders who are validated by this narrative and who consider non trans children and women collateral damage in their glorious life-affirming cause.

And really fucking stupid people who don't question these things. Those too.

ATransMum I'm not sure you've read me correctly. I'm not saying GNC, gender dysphoric people or transgender people exist. I'm simply saying it's not possible to change sex however much surgery you have. Anyone can, and should, present how they want and be accepted for it.

No I'm not trans, but like others for a long time growing up I hated being a female and longed to be be male. I wanted my breasts removed and was horrified by my periods - honestly, it can be distressing losing what seems a large amount of blood out of your vagina. I do have a daughter who nearly 5 years ago suddenly announced she was transgender - I'm not going to go into our back story again - it's on here under my current name.

Your AFAB child says 'I want to be a boy'. Consistently, persistenly, over several years, and is self harming and has attempted suicide because they are going through puberty and does't want their breasts to grow any more.

You can:

a) Tell them they can't change sex.
b) Listen to them and talk to agencies like Tavistock about the right options

Which one do you think gives the child the best medical chance and quality of life?

Now, I've actually been in this situation, and we did both. As others have said, it's biologically impossible to change sex. We kept our debates calm and logical - never demanded she agree with us, but would question why she felt as she did.

That kind of advice is unhelpful, not medically relevant and could well pollute the minds of a parent. It's like prescribing homeopathy for cancer patients - it doesn't work.

She's now desisting and very not dead, despite having a mum with a polluted mind!

Bloody insulting to parents who have not had their minds "polluted" but have thought carefully about things and have always put their child's best interests to the fore, to suggest that they are wrong not to go full steam ahead with transition.
I'm so glad to hear that your dd had started to come to terms with her female body, Hypothetical

Me too, LyndanotLinda. I've got no time for Paris Lees, who memorably said "I like being eye-fucked on the escalator" and "I don't feel frightened when some spunky dude comes up and talks to me" while taking potshots at women whose discomfort with street harassment "infantilizes" them. People who grow up with male strength and privilege never sound like women. They're blind to the fact that women can't choose not to be the targets of predatory men. Nor do they appreciate the constant wariness all women feel when vulnerable to male violence. Paris Lees finds street harassment sexually arousing, and so do the men who inflict it. Strange, that.

The problem is, taking MtT as an example if the MtT is sexually attracted to women, straight are unlikely to be attracted to them as they present as women, and gay women are unlikely to be attracted to them as they are male. The converse is true for FtT.

Really? Funny because my real world experience and the experience of a significant amount of my peers would contradict your somewhat bigoted opinion.

It's trans woman and trans man, just in case you forgot.

The only narrowing of my potential pool of partners is the bigoted ones that can't see past my gender history. Which can only be a good thing.

That kind of advice is unhelpful, not medically relevant and could well pollute the minds of a parent.

That's not our "job".

Mermaids had a niche in the polluting parents minds field.

Funny because my real world experience and the experience of a significant amount of my peers would contradict your somewhat bigoted opinion

It is not bigoted. Straight people are attracted to the opposite sex, gay to the same sex. When it comes to sexuality genitals do matter.

So anyone who doesn't think you're a potential partner because they're either lesbians or straight men and therefore not attracted to you because you're the wrong sex for their sexuality are "bigots", are they ATM? Is that what you're saying by "can't see past my gender history"? What a very disingenuous phrase.

Oh thank goodness you're here now ATransMum - we can stop worrying about the ever so serious side effects of encouraging children to get genital surgery because YOU have been enjoying your sex life. We can all go home now - what a relief.

As someone who has worked with women and girls who've been subject to FGM (of varying severity) I find it appalling that anyone would try to cast "bottom" surgery in a positive life, let alone try to pretend that you can have a fulfilling sex life afterwards. To talk to children about sex change operations as if they are easy and won't have a very serious impact on them in the future is pure mendacity and smacks of narcissism.

She's now desisting and very not dead, despite having a mum with a polluted mind!

But you actually listened, didn't you? Gave her the chance to explore and talk to people about it. Had an open mind. Maybe even looked into outcomes and treatments.

Which is what I want to see happening.

I don't want kids medicated and thrown onto puberty suppressing drugs the second they pick up a barbie doll. I want parents to realise that their child might be trans and help them explore that in the right way.

Not to just tell the child 'don't be silly, you're a girl. Human female. You'll never be a boy'.

I'm not saying every GNC child is trans. A lot of them are exploring, some are just testing their boundaries, others might grow up to be non-heterosexual. But some of them will actually be trans (probably more than 1/5th of them).

You can listen, help them, be a good parent. Or you can keep saying 'you can't change sex' over and over with your fingers in your ears. It doesn't make a great epitaph.

I don't know what kind of person would try and frighten parents by using untrue information about suicide rates

A realist. Someone who is trying to save the lives of trans people.

And untrue? I personally know people who have attempted suicide, have self-harmed and have sadly taken their own lives. At many different ages.

You really don't have to look far to find the data:

www.advocate.com/transgender/2015/10/07/san-diego-mourns-fourth-trans-teen-lost-suicide-year
yspp.org/about_suicide/statistics.htm
www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/10/07/trans-teen-killed-himself-after-hospital-staff-kept-calling-him-a-girl/

ATM. as far as I remember you haven't had surgery yet? I may be mistaken.

I mostly remember you saying there was no answer to the question of how we can distinguish a transwoman from a cross dresser with AGP (or any other sexual predator dressed as a woman).

womb put up a very interesting post about suicides ATM. I suggest you read it.

So sad about the child you linked to. He obviously had many other problems in his life if being called a girl by hospital staff caused him to kill himself. I imagine if you're trans then sadly you have to get used to being miagendered. A good idea to help children build resilience so they're not shocked that most other people don't agree they're actually the opposite sex.

Not to just tell the child 'don't be silly, you're a girl. Human female. You'll never be a boy'

But that is the truth. They need to work out who they are, but within the confines of what is actually possible. Wanting to be an astronaut is very unlikely, but is possible. Becoming the opposite sex is impossible, and will always be so.

A good idea to help children build resilience so they're not shocked that most other people don't agree they're actually the opposite sex.

Or perhaps don't let them believe that they are the opposite sex...