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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

woman loses residency of son she was raising as daughter

785 replies

BombadierFritz · 21/10/2016 18:38

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3859618/You-caused-son-great-harm-insisting-raising-girl-Boy-seven-sent-live-father-mother-raised-daughter.html

hmmm. ok so its daily mail reporting but I am conflicted
perhaps good if child was being pushed into something he wasnt
but wtf with the boringly stereotypical insistance on the type of toys played with

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
FloraFox · 01/11/2016 13:52

Gidds / Hanora what advice did Mermaids give you about the likelihood that your child will grow up to be lesbian or gay and not trans? Did they point you to resources where you could make connections with other parents of GNC kids who are not trans or any materials to show kids that they could grow up to be a butch lesbian or an effeminate gay man and affirming that as a good outcome? Did they talk about the dangers of life-long hormone treatments or surgeries?

Gidds · 01/11/2016 14:02

Yes, there was a discussion about my child actually being gay. We also discussed that this may be a phase as my child has hit her teens. We also discussed my worries that my child was bein manipulated into being trans, rather than actually having gender identity issues. When I said I was surprised by this sudden change, and that my child gets upset when we say she looks female featurly, they responded that it's what my child sees when she looks in the mirror (which mirrored something my friend who is a health professional said to me previously)

When I mentioned my worries of my child pushing for hormone blockers and surgery at such a young age, I was comforted by the fact that it's not a quick easy process and so wouldn't be something we could rush into. They also said it does sound like my child is very confused rather than being sure of gender dysmorphia.

I was also advised to seek help via CAHMS (although I had already reached out to them) and told consistently that they were not trained health professionals but parents/guardians/carers etc who just advise, support and discuss transgender issues from their own experiences.

The other issue I was worried about was my child wanting a binder, and I was worried about the health impact on a developing child. They gave me their opinion that they did not believe it caused any issues, but advised me to research first.

Gidds · 01/11/2016 14:11

The one thing I can't understand, was how the mother managed to see Tavistock without being referred. I was of the understanding that CAHMS have to assess first and then refer (as confirmed yesterday by our Councellors)

Does anyone know the answer to this?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/11/2016 14:31

According to Tavistock website, any "professional" can refer, they just don't accept self referrals (although they do state a preference for CAHMS referrals)

tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/care-and-treatment/our-clinical-services/gender-identity-development-service-gids/

paulawilliams92 · 01/11/2016 14:33

Hello to all the mums out there, just wanted to respond positively to all the posts about this. I am the proud mum of a transgender child, and no I do not have a mental condition or the unfulfilled desire for a child of this sex, as I already had 1 before my teen told me that they felt they had been born in the wrong body. This is a recognised medical condition, called dysphoria, for which my child has been receiving treatment from qualified Doctors, and in no shape or form is a whim. Mermaids have been supporting us as a family for the last 4 years, and without them I am not certain that my child would still be alive, as they saw no future stuck in the body they were born with. You are all lucky if this sort of medical dilemma has never happened to you, but dont judge those of us that are trying to help and support our much loved individuals through what can be a very hard time.

LyndaNotLinda · 01/11/2016 14:33

The Tavistock take self-referrals - well they always used to. I assume that extends to parents who are seeking help for their children

Gidds · 01/11/2016 14:33

So in that case, which "professional" referred the mother? As it says she refused everyone ..... Unless I suppose, Social Services?

LyndaNotLinda · 01/11/2016 14:36

It says they accept self-referrals here: tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/care-and-treatment/coming-see-us/young-people/do-you-need-help/

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/11/2016 14:36

Hi Paula it sounds as if your situation is different from the woman in this court case that the thread is about - obviously in that case the mother was found to be forcibly transing her son, with "support" from Mermaids. Are you happy that Mermaids are still maintaining that they were right, and the court was wrong?

BeyondReasonablyDoubts · 01/11/2016 14:38

Did I miss it becoming Groundhog Day?

Gidds · 01/11/2016 14:38

Oh okay. I thought it was referrals and that was what our CAHMS Councellors suggested yesterday

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/11/2016 14:40

Lynda that's interesting - their website obviously requires some updating one way or another Grin

Datun · 01/11/2016 14:56

This is a recognised medical condition, called dysphoria, for which my child has been receiving treatment from qualified Doctors,

This child didn't have dysphoria though Paula. He isn't trans.

Do you have any idea why mermaids are claiming he is?

tubasinthemoonlight · 01/11/2016 14:57

Hanora50 says "Tubu goes on to discuss Susie Green and her daughter in detail and yes I know a lot of the information is public knowledge but is all of it?"

Please tell me where I said anything about Susie and her daughter which isn't freely available on the internet or shown on TV.

Yes there was a confidentiality policy and safeguarding policy when I left. I know because I was involved in updating them. Yes I agreed to abide by both and I have not breached either of them. What I said in my post about how parents were supported did not reference anyone in what they may have been advised.

As it is so clear that I didn't mention anyone by name in my post one could assume that Hanora50 feels what I said was directed at them or someone they know. Maybe they themselves were encouraged by Mermaids to pursue treatment I mentioned in that post.

The reason I did not stay and fight for what was right two and a half years ago was because certain member/s of the committee, (not Trustees as it was not a charity then), had decided I had to go because I had challenged them. They had dismissed my concerns (all of which have since turned out to be valid). The reason I have now started to support those looking closely at Mermaids is almost entirely because I, and those who backed me two and a half years ago have to all intents and purposes been exonerated of making false claims.

Also it is far easier to see what is going on once you are outside, looking from a distance. Piecing together all the recent events in the media has helped me to clarify in my mind exactly what was going on. That is why I have chosen to speak out now. The climate is right for Mermaids to be looked at more closely.

There is a lot more which I could say about what I saw going on in Mermaids but I am gagged by the confidentiality policy I signed.

RiverTam · 01/11/2016 15:00

Having watched the Newsnight discussion, I can't understand how anyone would want Susie Green anywhere near their vulnerable children. She first noticed that her 18 month old baby wasn't how she expected a baby boy to be - what the actual fuck does that even mean? And so she just thought he'd grow up to be gay. Again, what the fuck? Only someone who rigidly believes and adheres to (damaging and negative) gender stereotypes would even think those things about a baby. And this is the child she took out of the UK to gain access to drugs that are illegal for under 18s and surgery that is also illegal for under 18s?

I wouldn't want this woman or any organisation she fronts to get within a country mile of my child.

Stephanie Davies-Arai stuck to the facts. Susie Green doesn't appear to have any facts to stick to.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/11/2016 15:02

Stephanie Davies-Arai stuck to the facts. Susie Green doesn't appear to have any facts to stick to

This^

I was also Shock at her "diagnosing" her 18month old as gay

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 01/11/2016 15:12

I was too ItsAll - it just screams homophobia to me.

I am also highly doubtful that as a four year old her child turned to her and said "Mummy, I need to tell you something. God's made a mistake and I should have been a girl"

BeyondReasonablyDoubts · 01/11/2016 15:15

Taking your child for surgery/drugs that are illegal in one country should be prosecutable. I can't see why it's treated any different to FGM.

IceBeing · 01/11/2016 15:19

oh I don't know, my DD told me around that age that she thought my tummy made a mistake and she should have been a boy....no god in our household so the humans have to be held responsible for the errors Grin.

I asked her why she thought she should have been a boy and she told me she really wanted to marry her best friend. I told her girls can get married to each other if they want and that was the end of 'I should have been a boy'.

I suppose I could have encouraged her in her belief though...who knows where we would be now if I had praised her endlessly for being different and suggested she changed her name?

HermioneWeasley · 01/11/2016 15:48

The stories from parents about their "trans" kids are startlingly similar. Almost like there's a script they're being coached on..,

BeyondReasonablyDoubts · 01/11/2016 15:51

How do cahms advise on suicidal ideation usually?

Gidds · 01/11/2016 16:05

HermonieWeasley - yeah scripted like when a person reveals they are gay, being as the way they "come out" is strikingly similar 🙄

Beyondreasonablydoubts - in our case, we are still on "suicide watch" with our child, but are looking into other avenues to which are causing her unhappiness and confusion about her gender

RiverTam · 01/11/2016 16:11

No, that's what what's meant, Gidds. If you read about or watch so many of these trans children stories, they all seem to start with child playing with toys associated with opposite sex. No-one is saying that this is how it starts with all cases, but this is what's being portrayed and no-one, least of all Mermaids or the BBC, are challenging that. It's unhelpful at best, damaging at worst, for everyone.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/11/2016 16:12

Hermione I don't think the replies are scripted, after all it is quite a niche area so you might expect parents to have quite similar experiences.

What surprised me was how accepting and unquestioning all of the account are. There seems to be a certain lack of a gender critical approach, or indeed any approach which does not equal pink brain in blue body.

HermioneWeasley · 01/11/2016 16:13

I haven't experienced a striking similarity in coming out stories from LGB people actually, and I've been knocking around the scenes for decades.

The are strong similarities from kids who you'd be surprised would have the capacity to understand in terms of "born in wrong body", stories of boys trying to cut their penis off with scissors (as another poster said always get found in the nick of time) and crying with relief when they hear about transition

Just an observation