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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ched Evans verdict

989 replies

FreshwaterSelkie · 14/10/2016 16:12

to continue the discussion as the previous thread closed.

OP posts:
Marbleheadjohnson · 16/10/2016 17:48

Alex Brooker summed up the family's actions perfectly at the end of The Last Leg on Friday: "it's fucked up!"

flippinada · 16/10/2016 17:49

"But it's not just infidelity - it's all the actions surrounding what he did, the complete lack of respect for the victim - pretty much treating her like a piece of meat - the men filming outside the window - even details like completely abandoning the victim. You can take away the rape conviction and he is still somebody who did something that was completely despicable"

Thank you merrymouse, that's it exactly. A decent human being just wouldn't have behaved like CE and his friends.

flippinada · 16/10/2016 17:54

Fucked up is a good description.

Andrewofgg · 16/10/2016 19:00

Here is the full judgment of the Court of Appeal quashing the original conviction:

www.crimeline.info/uploads/cases/2016/chedevansappealx.pdf

HillaryFTW · 16/10/2016 19:34

Thanks, Andrew.

"apparently thinking of suing Brabners, his former solicitors."

Lass, what might be his grounds for is?

EmmaMacGill · 16/10/2016 20:04

Fucked up is right, the fiancé has obviously been set a low bar by her father and is continuing her low expectations with CE and will probably ingrain it into their son too.
Is a shame it's not just (some) men who have such misogynistic attitudes

Felascloak · 16/10/2016 20:06

That judgement is terrible. Basically Ched exploited a loophole. Angry

Marbleheadjohnson · 16/10/2016 20:09

It glosses over the fact the information was already in the public domain. And one of the guys was so keen on giving a statement because he thought she was lying and motivated by greeed, and he worried about getting accused of rape too.

merrymouse · 16/10/2016 21:04

Looking at the judgement, the Crown did argue that the witnesses could have been fed the information, but this wasn't enough to convince the Appeal judges not to allow a retrial - basically they refer the question to the jury.

"Nevertheless, we have borne very much in mind the fact that there may be material available to the Crown that has the potential to undermine the witnesses' credibility at a hearing where their evidence can be thoroughly and rigorously tested in a way that was not possible before us. The Crown has a number of potentially valid points to make. There is the possibility that the witnesses may be more partial than they cared to admit and there is the obvious point that their current accounts did not come to light until the appellant had exhausted the appeals process."

The Crown also argued that the sexual behaviour was pretty standard. However:

"The flaw in Ms Law's argument, as we see it, is that she focussed on there being nothing 'unusual' about X's alleged behaviour. The behaviour does not have to be unusual or bizarre; it has to be sufficiently similar that it cannot be explained reasonably as a coincidence".

It just seems so flimsy, given the potential for the information to be fed to the witnesses, and, yes, the pretty common nature of the behaviour. However, apparently it was enough to convince the jury of reasonable doubt.

What isn't clear is why this case is 'exceptional' and why a similar tactic couldn't be used by another defendant. The main exceptional thing about this case seems to be the amount of resources the defendent had at their disposal to keep going until they found anything to advance their case.

Felascloak · 16/10/2016 21:09

Yes quite merry That's why I called it a loophole. CE lawyers argued that similar didn't have to mean unusual and therefore got a retrial for a crime where the odds are hugely stacked in the defendants favour.
And in the meantime basically showed how meaningless that clause in the law actually is.
I hope that this triggers a tightening of the law, too late for the victim here though.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 16/10/2016 21:13

. Basically Ched exploited a loophole

Thats what you pay the big bucks for Sad

JenLindleyShitMom · 16/10/2016 21:18

"The behaviour does not have to be unusual or bizarre; it has to be sufficiently similar that it cannot be explained reasonably as a coincidence"

This seems so ridiculous. There are so many things that are very common during sex that could also happen during a rape. For example scratching or biting. Things I've done during consensual sex that are entirely plausible during a rape. Or orgasm. Lots of women orgasm during a rape. Probably loads of other things I can't think of just now too.

CharlieSierra · 16/10/2016 21:24

That is so stupid isn't it, so similar it cannot be reasonably explained as coincidence, but on the other hand not unusual....Hmm

DeleteOrDecay · 16/10/2016 21:26

So basically that poor girl has been through the ringer twice because he kept throwing money at it until the 'problem' went away.

Seems like it is possible to buy 'justice' if you have the money.

merrymouse · 16/10/2016 21:42

Apparently when the original trial took place no lawyer thought to ask the sex preferences witness about her sexual preferences, so he didn't say anything. He thought he was there to testify that she wasn't acting like a rape victim and was probably greedy.

Years later, when questioned by CE's defence team, he managed to remember.

HillaryFTW · 16/10/2016 21:55

Well the last paragraph has been shot to shit - we do not expect a repetition of the appalling treatment of the victim on the Internet.

WinchesterWoman · 16/10/2016 21:57

Yes the loophole should be removed: it's extraordinary that it still exists.

merrymouse · 16/10/2016 22:02

Yes, slow hand clap indeed - 'we do not expect'. I can't tell whether they honestly 'don't expect' or whether they think this statement will somehow control behaviour - who is it directed at?

Childrenofthestones · 16/10/2016 22:02

The article doesn't say the money was paid it says it was offered.
Do you have another source?

HillaryFTW · 16/10/2016 22:03

I think it's pissing into the wind and hoping it doesn't blow on your shoes, TBH, merry. It's a meaningless platitude.

AyeAmarok · 16/10/2016 22:12

Well the last paragraph has been shot to shit - we do not expect a repetition of the appalling treatment of the victim on the Internet.

Are you shitting me? They actually said this? Is "We" the appeal court judges? They didn't expect this!?

The ONE thing they could have bet their life on was that she'd be hounded, abused, threatened and outed again on social media. How could they be so stupid?

Angry
Marbleheadjohnson · 16/10/2016 22:24

I take the "we do not expect this" to mean "from our Judge (Ivory) Towers, we would frown upon anyone who repeats that behaviour" rather than "well that's unlikely to happen again"

Marbleheadjohnson · 16/10/2016 22:25

And woe betide anyone who does abuse her, they run the risk of being fined a whole £624.

BeyondReasonablyDoubts · 16/10/2016 22:54

In case anyone here didn't see, a go fund me page has been set up for her...

www.gofundme.com/help-ched-evans-complainant-2uj5pv8

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 16/10/2016 22:55

"apparently thinking of suing Brabners, his former solicitors."

Lass, what might be his grounds for is?

I'm not a criminal lawyer but basically they would have had to have conducted it in a way no reasonably competent solicitor would have i e they don't have to be the best there is snatching victory against all the odds, just reasonably competent.