Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

First female soldier.

179 replies

Thecatsmum · 17/09/2016 08:10

Only they've not had any surgery and have just started hormone treatment therefore they are a man!

How can they possibly be feted as the first female soldier?

The world truly has gone mad.

OP posts:
dementedma · 17/09/2016 16:17

I posted this on the other thread, from someone in the know. The Army have known about this case for months and have been held over the PC barrel by the law which states that Chloe is a woman as she identifies as one, has changed her name and identifies as one. The lawyers have been all over them re the wording of the press release. Don't blame the army for the media reports - blame the law and our society which forces people to use the PC terminology or face litigation.

ftw · 17/09/2016 16:24

Oh, I'm absolutely blaming the media here.

I'm guessing as well that the use of 'female' was 'lack of thinking' rather than 'deliberate change of meaning' but it shows how easily we can be made invisible.

Still Spartacus, still livid.

ScarfForAGiraffe · 17/09/2016 16:25

I saw this on the sun in a cafe and came here
Nowhere else seems a safe space to talk about it. Any educated /science/ parenting group I'm on is very pro lgbt and anyone not is seen as a bigot. :(

ScarfForAGiraffe · 17/09/2016 16:26

(To clarify, I think lgb issues are v separate from the t!)

GiveMeShade · 17/09/2016 16:34

Have just complained to the BBC about the inaccuracy of their reporting. I don't remember them referring to Rachel Dolezal as black, despite her identifying as black, but if you have a penis and identify as a woman that's just fine and we'll all go along with it. Righty ho.

WhatWouldCoachBombayDo · 17/09/2016 16:39

I'm so glad I've found this, I'm on a Facebook group where this was a talking point by serving and ex serving personnel. This may out me, I raised a feminist point and guess what all the men agreed and no harsh words about mentioning a feminist argument, and on comes a male to female transgender individual and out of the hundreds of comments to have a pop out chose me, the only female out of hundreds of men, and he denied male privilege exists for transgender MTF!!!......WTAF Angry

NNChangeAgain · 17/09/2016 16:39

held over the PC barrel by the law which states that Chloe is a woman as she identifies as one, has changed her name and identifies as one.

Which law? My understanding is that the recommendations of the Equalities Committee were just that.
Has the 2004 Act been amended?

WhatWouldCoachBombayDo · 17/09/2016 16:44

I'm also angry on behalf of the actual women due to begin training at catterick that will be the UK Army's first women infantry soldiers, that a man has taken that away from them.

I'm frothing and rambling, I'm sorry Sad

user1472515172 · 17/09/2016 16:48

So what do we do ? Do we let this go by or do we speak out to the media, to our MPs ? Do we start a petition asking for an assurance that women will not be erased ? Do we ask Maria Miller to publicly state her position that 'woman' is simply an identity unlike skin colour, disabled status, religious affiliation, age etc ? Do we simply have the discussion within our own circles ?

Are the words "female" and "woman" formally legally defined? I mean I know that the word "female" means "of the sex that can produce eggs and bear young," but does it have a legal definition?
I think we need to start staking our claim to the words that identify us, basically. We have to take back the language that we NEED to be able to speak about what actually happens to us and stop it from being hollowed out completely and rendered utterly meaningless.

EmpressTomatoKetchup · 17/09/2016 16:54

I've been on the fence with trans issues until now.

WearingMidnight · 17/09/2016 17:01

I delurked just for the Spartacus thread. I am still Spartacus.
A few more people will hit peak trans when they click on the link expecting someone brave and stunning.

NNChangeAgain · 17/09/2016 17:21

Yes. It's written on a birth certificate.

GRC is the only way to be legally recognised as the opposite gender to the "sex" you have been assigned at birth.

So, by describing Chloe as a woman, they are using a term that does not apply to her, as she does not hold a GRC.

I fully appreciate that "trans" is a protected characteristic, as is being in the process of transitioning. However, Chloe is not being discriminated against by being described as a trans-woman. She is not (yet) a legal woman, until she holds a GRC.

user1472515172 · 17/09/2016 17:39

The constant use of the word "female" to describe this person is making me want to smash things.

I think we need to give up. Fuck it, it's over.

HairyLittlePoet · 17/09/2016 17:56

I regularly feel like that user and I talk myself back from the ledge.

It isn't over. The whole concept is so ludicrous, and the transgressions into women's rights so breathtaking, that even if ground is lost in the short term, I think the point will come when most people, even men who benefit from these changes, become profoundly uncomfortable with what is happening to women.

Ultimately, enough men were reluctantly persuaded to grant women the vote, even the misogynist ones probably began to feel embarrassed by the paper thin justifications denying women their rights.

Perhaps a few more cases being publicised of
men: win
transwomen:win
women : lose
and people will acknowledge that women are getting crushed by this.

WhatWouldCoachBombayDo · 17/09/2016 17:56

I've never ever really engaged in a feminist argument and I've always been pretty quiet about it, but fuck it I think many are right, if we can't have women and female what's the fucking point!! Sad

icyfront · 17/09/2016 18:08

The Army statement is fatuous. Why did they need to issue a statement? They could easily have said "no comment". That soldier is only doing what they were trained and experienced in doing, so them being on the front-line is not much different now than it was a few months ago.

It's re-writing history before history has been made.

SpuriouserAndSpuriouser · 17/09/2016 18:11

Everyone else has already said it far more eloquently than I have, so I have nothing of value to add except that I am Spartacus. Fuck.

ITCouldBeWorse · 17/09/2016 18:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HairyLittlePoet · 17/09/2016 18:39

"Army continues to exclude actual women whilst claiming man is a woman in ludicrous attempt to appear progressive. Media throws a party"
Not so snappy, I admit.

FreshwaterSelkie · 17/09/2016 18:59

I don't often do fb political stuff, usually just pictures of food and dogs, but I had a full blooded rant about this and a close female friend has just gone full on handmaiden on me Sad . "she is a woman. that's all I need to know".

completely resistant to all my best gender critical stuff. I'm a bit stupidly upset - I hadn't realised she'd drunk the kool aid. Ho hum!

HexBramble · 17/09/2016 19:05

I'm still hopeful that it's an almighty wind- up.

dementedma · 17/09/2016 19:12

It's not a wind up.Ben is the first woman to serve in the Infantry front line.
I am Spartacus.

MatildaOfTuscany · 17/09/2016 19:27

Like it, Hairy. I'd buy any paper you were a sub-editor on.

Buunychops · 17/09/2016 19:45

Amazing how many MTT are also lesbians, wonder why that is?