Transwoman using women's loos at work

[CharlieSierra]

I've posted a bit about this over the past few days on the MN response to Spartacus thread in site stuff, but someone suggested I start a new thread about it here.

Earlier this week I was surprised to encounter an apparently male person in the women's loos at work. I understand from a colleague that they have just started the transitioning process, and it appears from all the research I have done that there is no way to avoid them invading our space. It would be discriminatory to prevent them.
We also have showers, presumably the same applies. I plan to take it up with HR, since none of the women in the building were told this could happen, but I haven't managed to speak to anyone about it yet.
I feel angry, powerless, silenced. It's obvious using the next cubicle that they use the toilet as a man would. We will have to adapt our behaviour, hide any discomfort so as not to make them feel uncomfortable. There are unisex accessible loos on every floor, but no, they want to be in ours.

This is pushing women out of the public space the same women in India are pushed out of the public space

Are you actually comparing peeing in a cubicle next to a transwoman to the violence seen against women in India?

Would you tell your daughter to stop being a bigot if she did not want to strip to bra and pants in front of what is, to all intents and purposes, a bloke?

I see what you are trying here, but I suspect that those who have swallowed the trans koolaid would indeed have so little empathy for their daughters that they would tell them that.

The wants of the bepenised half of the population are clearly more important to them than the needs of us lowly uterus-havers.

No, Poison, I won't. This thread isn't about you. You are clearly struggling with that idea so let me help you: I don't believe your bigotry is deserving of my time.

I would be fine with a transman forever if I knew they were trans. Often transmen 'pass' better than transwomen so I might be uncomfortable if I had no idea they were female for the same reasons I would be uncomfortable with a random bloke in my space.

No, she is transphobic

Really and why is that?
The OP has not expressed a dislike or hatred towards trans people. Nor has she expressed prejudice. She has merely declared that penises/men have no place in womens private areas. That opinion is based on reason and experience.

Even the law cannot vhange the born sex of a person. Nothing can.

If there was a woman transitioning in to a man, and you strongly support single gender spaces, how long would you want that person in your toilets, changing rooms etc, if you really believe they will always be a woman?

I'd throw her out when she starts to act like a misogynistic male. On a case to case basis.
Research proves that while transwomen never become less violent than regular dudes, transmen do indeed become more violent than regular women. So there's scientific basis for making a difference here.
They, together with transwomen, can go to unisex changing rooms, where they will be sharing with people with different genitals from their own. Which apparently is no problem for them, so they can do that.

I don't give a shit if someone wants to scream bigot at me because I don't want to share a female space with someone with a penis. It's always been an effective way to shut down discussion, but I refuse to be shut down.

OP This person was born female where should he use the loo?

It's never fails to surprise me how those shouting bigot and transphobe are always so reluctant to answer when confronted with examples such as Danielle Muscato or Rape Crisis Centres...

But Beach tackling the men, making them accountable, calling them names and forcing them to accept transwonen in their toilets is a no no. We are not allowed to discuss male violence instead we must leave the men to it allow them to do as they please and force weak women to accept these changes regardless of the dangers.

Yes Izzy. That's the long and the short of it.

I have a question for the women on this thread who find it sad and intolerant that many women do not agree with transwomen in female spaces. That question is; do you really believe that transwomen are female and if you do then does that include all transwomen? By that I mean not just transsexuals who take hormones and have had surgery but also a man who has had no surgery and takes minimal or no hormones.

What I mean by that question is do you think that transwomen have female reproductive systems? And if you don't think that transwomen have female reproductive systems then please could you explain how you define female?

These are genuine questions.

Because I cannot comprehend your position. (Or is it simply that you know fine well that transwomen are not female but you are willing to pretend??)

FFS. I'm not prioritising a man's feelings over a woman's. I'm saying that the trans person identifies as a woman hence why they want to live as a woman so no I don't think they'd have a problem with it and as they identify as female why should we? If a young girl feels comfortable washing her bloody trousers in a sink in a public toilet in front of women, and a trans woman comes in, she's another woman IMO.

so much anger on this thread, do you know what I'd love to see all women supporting other women, and I include trans in that, I'm sick of women in power that do nothing to help the struggle of grass roots women. We all seem to want power, but when we have it how do we use it to help women that don't have as much power? A trans woman has the least power by the sounds of this thread, and so may people pissed off that all she wants to do is use a fucking toilet in peace.

Trifle clearly doesn't want to admit she has a problem with transwomen in some spaces but not others. Interesting cognitive dissonance there. It was in response to the "it's not a slippery slope" comments when clearly the slope is oiled to fuck.

I would personally be fine sharing a loo with a transwoman but I respect the rights of women who are not. I would campaign for gender neutral loos to be out in every building alonside segregated ones so everyone can be comfortable.

It's not bigotry to say transwomen are not exactly the same as women and both groups have different needs and struggles.

OP This person was born female where should he use the loo?

"He" should use the unisex loo, that OP mentioned her workplace provides.

Or the women's, after telling "his" colleagues, and providing medical proof, that "he" is biologically female.

You won't bully us into accepting males in women's spaces by threatening us with transmen. You should know this. We don't want penis in women's spaces, we don't object to trousers.

I strongly dislike transmen, as experience tells us they are often misogynist, but they still don't have penises. So there's that. Sharing a room with them would be just like sharing a room with other female arseholes, which do exist, and not all of them pretend to be male.

OP This person was born female where should he use the loo?

Depends wether or not they have a penis. If they have had GRT then they should use the male toilets. The same way men should use the male toilets until they no longer have a penis.

I see none of those insisting women should STFU have not answered my question about why MTTs can't use the men's loos. If women can't be uncomfortable with men in their spaces, why is it ok for MTTs to be uncomfortable with men around?

I see none of those insisting women should STFU have not answered my question about why MTTs can't use the men's loos. If women can't be uncomfortable with men in their spaces, why is it ok for MTTs to be uncomfortable with men around?

Yeah, I would like to know that, too.

Sway don't people actually answer the deeper questions as to what is considered femal and where would you draw the line.

I had a conversation with a young gay guy about this. He called anyone who had a problem with transfolk transphobic and intolerant, said that TM were men, at least more man than woman and should be accepted as the men that they are. I asked if he would have sex with a TM, "if the TM looked like Buckangel - then possibly". When I asked if he would have sex with a TM with breasts and a vagina - he got a bit annoyed and insulted strangely. Seems he had drawn a line somewhere.

I reject the idea of gender, I do not believe in male or female brains. I do however believe in biology. To me people are people but some have a penis and some have a vagina (ok some people are intersex but not many) People with a penis do not belong in spaces allocated to people with a vagina. People can dress how the hell they want I don't care. People can have sex with who ever they want as long as both are consenting and I don't care. Wearing a dress and makeup does not make you have a vagina so you don't belong in spaces allocated for vaginas.

I wouldn't call myself transphobic though I'm sure others will I just don't accept the need for trans at all. People are people and should be able to be what ever they want without having to be trans.

My daughter feels even more strongly than I do but since she personally knows Anna Lee that's probably not that surprising.

God, you're a nasty little lot, aren't you? Boring too. I have better things to do than listen to this. Enjoy your hate-fest.

so much anger on this thread, do you know what I'd love to see all women supporting other women, and I include trans in that Me too! I know lots of transwomen and don't fear them at all. Toilets should be safe places with lockable doors and suitable privacy regardless of who's using them.

I can understand being against sex segregated spaces completely. Not agree, but understand.

I can't understand agreeing with the concept of women's toilets but saying penises should be allowed into them.

What's that about?

Bambamini I haven't seen the article but there haven't been any women recruits yet so I'm not sure how there is a woman in the infantry yet.

With the toilet issue, women are already attached to infantry units so when there are women joining it will be just the same as that. Although I have read numerous posts on Facebook from women who are worried that women joining the infantry will lure their husbands to bed, with their feminine wiles

God, you're a nasty little lot, aren't you? Boring too. I have better things to do than listen to this. Enjoy your hate-fest.

Aww, and you seemed so lovely and interesting too. Don't let the door hit you in the virtue-signalling arse on the way out sweetheart.

Mycatswanttokillme1.

I don't know if your post was in reply to mine but it sort of answered my question. You appear to be saying that you believe that transwomen (all transwomen?) are female. That is you believe them to have female reproductive systems.

Have I got that right?

Toilets should be safe places with lockable doors and suitable privacy regardless of who's using them.

What many on this thread have missed is that OP's workplace has unisex accessible toilets yet her colleague is insisting on using the women's.