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Original poster

Cavan family annihilation by a "brilliant Dad"

242 replies

DoinItFine · 01/09/2016 18:31

Is anyone else reading all about what an amazing guy Alan Hawe was with mounting disbelief and fury?

He stabbed his wife and three sons to death in a frenzied attack and then hung himself.

But poor him, he must have bern awful tortured. And he went to mass all the time.

Great Dad

You know when you read awful threads about abuse on MN and then out it comes "he's a great Dad", and you think "what does a man have to do to losr that label?"

Well apparently you can murder your 3 kids and still keep the Great Dad title. Angry

OP posts:
MrsToddsShortcut · 02/09/2016 13:00

The cognitive dissonance around any kind of DV is immense. I spent 7 years with someone incredibly violent and controlling. I suffered in silence and still have permanant injuries now. He was universally worshipped in our social circles as being a 'top bloke'. No-one believed me except a handful of female friends that I confided in.

My then best friend is now married to him. That is how deep dissonance around DV goes. He is also, many years later, still regarded, in his social circles, as being a 'top bloke'.

Lottapianos · 02/09/2016 13:01

'Violence of this nature doesn't just happen in a vacuum.'

Absolutely right. I dread to think what that poor woman may have gone through before she died and what people may well be saying privately about her now, in their rush to talk about what a lovely man and great dad her husband was. As if there is anything she could possible have done that would justify what he did.

You're right Doin, it seems there is officially nothing a man can do to lose his 'great dad' title.

The decision to bury them all together is ...... well, I just don't know what to say.

I'm extremely heartened by the outcry about the erasing of Clodagh's name from the story though. I'm not sure that would have happened a few years ago.

ElspethFlashman · 02/09/2016 13:03

Oh I see. Ok, that's a fundamental difference of ideology which isn't appropriate for this thread. NI is just a different country to me, that's all. I would never presume to describe the lived experience of people who live there as I have never lived there.

I wouldn't for a second be rude about your own personal identity. But I don't agree I have less right to commentate on Irish matters than you! Grin

FanDabbyFloozy · 02/09/2016 13:10

I am glad I chanced upon this thread.

This is not an Irish problem - it's a global issue in that woman's voices are unheard when abuse comes into the picture. The "great dad" eulogies have made me sick.

There is a parallel thread on boards.ie which has lots of men on it, all of whom are as appalled at the media reporting on this case.

My blood runs cold when I think of what may have happened in the final hours in that house.

Original poster
DoinItFine · 02/09/2016 13:11

You seem to be confusing ideology and geography.

Ireland is the name of an island as well as a country that takes up part of that island.

It is really quite bizarre to tell someone who lives on that island that they do not live in Ireland.

It's like people who get confused between leaving the EU and leaving Europe.

Either way, Cavan is closer to NI than it is to Cork or even Dublin.

Ireland is not a monoculture.

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JaneJeffer · 02/09/2016 13:12

I have to say I think it's very unusual for a murderer to be buried with his victims and I just don't understand why her mother wanted it to happen at all.

Original poster
DoinItFine · 02/09/2016 13:18

There is a parallel thread on boards.ie which has lots of men on it, all of whom are as appalled at the media reporting on this case.

Maybe younger men?

DH was disgusted at the idea that he could be called a great Dad.

I wonder what my Dad's response was?

I imagine initially sympathetic to the "poor fella" thing, but would realise how unreasonable that was when pointed out.

He can surprise on these things at times.

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FarelyKnuts · 02/09/2016 13:23

#HerNameWasClodagh
He had the presence of mind to leave a note on the back door telling whoever came to the house next (which happened to be Clodaghs mother) to not go in and to call the Gardai.
He left another letter "explaining" himself inside the house.
He killed his wife and then his sons.
He did not just suddenly "snap" and have some kind of breakdown. It took planning and calculation.
He was not a good man/father/anything.
He was a murderer.

Lottapianos · 02/09/2016 13:25

I read yesterday that the contents of his note will not be made public. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I understand that the privacy of remaining family members should be respected. On the other hand, it makes me uneasy and I'm not sure why.

Original poster
DoinItFine · 02/09/2016 13:29

I know, Lotta.

Is there a genuine public interest in making it public?

I would certainly like to know what it says.

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Lottapianos · 02/09/2016 13:32

Me too. However, is it in the public interest or is it just something the public would be interested in? I really don't know and can't think clearly about it. I feel sick to my stomach for Clodagh and her sons. She must have known as she died that her sons would be next. Its just unspeakable.

BeJayKayven · 02/09/2016 13:39

Personally, I hope he is currently burning in hell

TulipsInAJug · 02/09/2016 16:47

I live in Ireland. Yes, Northern Ireland, which in Ireland. Some strange comments on this thread. Hmm

Anyway, did anyone see the front cover of today's Irish Mirror? I posted on the craicnet thread.

I FORGIVE HIM.

Gist: Mother-in-law says she forgives son-in-law saying 'it's not the Alan I knew'.

Original poster
DoinItFine · 02/09/2016 16:58

I am really struggling to retain my sympathy for her mother.

If my sister and her children were murdered by her husband and my mother was having articles about how she forgave him published within a week, I would never forgive her.

There have been comments about how "she loved Alan as much as Clodagh" that struck me as off.

I just think, who the fuck was on Clodagh's side?

Everyone, including her own mother seems to have cared far more about Alan than about her.

The things her sister was reported as saying on FB were Shock too.

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FreshwaterSelkie · 02/09/2016 17:11

That's hearbreaking that even Clodagh's mother wasn't on her side.

I mean, I know that bearing a grudge only hurts oneself and even if you're not a christian there's a lot to be said for forgiving other people to free yourself, but...this quickly? It just makes me think that if, as seems likely, Clodagh's husband was not a good man, she had no-one to turn to Sad It so reminds me of a woman I know who left her abusive husband and was vilified for doing so by her own family, who simply didn't believe that the man they knew and loved would also punch her from time to time. It all fed nicely into the family dynamic in which she was the scapegoat.

A "good father" really does have such a shittily low benchmark, doesn't it? I've been thinking about that a lot today.

Helmetbymidnight · 02/09/2016 17:35

I can't understand the grandmother at all. It's ...bizarre.

ffon · 02/09/2016 17:37

This reminds me of the initial reports of the Al-Hilli family shooting in the French mountains.
It was all (his name) and his wife and mother or mother-in-law, I can't remember. But the two women were not named and only written of in relation to the man.

Triskaidekaphobic · 02/09/2016 17:37

There is a parallel thread on boards.ie which has lots of men on it, all of whom are as appalled at the media reporting on this case.

Maybe you're reading a different boards.ie thread? I have seen many men on there downplaying his actions, defending him as a good dad and one even claimed that 'more will come out' about Clodagh that will explain everything. Oh and the usual having a go at 'feminism'

I agree with everything you say OP. This is so sickening. It's made me really angry and brought me to the realisation that there is something fundamentally wrong in parts of Irish society.

I'm Irish so I'm perfectly entitled to reach such a conclusion before anyone has a go at me

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 02/09/2016 17:38

I agree with Selkie - this reminds me uncomfortably of a woman I know who left her abusive husband and went to her parents' house only to be told to turn around and go back home. I'm truly hoping that her mother's forgiveness comes from a place of Christian compassion, but it feels an awful lot like saving face to me.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 02/09/2016 17:38

It won't have sunk in by the time she said it. I think it's very unfair to judge her by her response at a moment when many bereaved people still haven't emotionally fully taken on board the scale of their loss.

FreshwaterSelkie · 02/09/2016 17:56

I don't know how accurately it's been reported, but she elaborates on it, countess. About how he was the backbone of the family and how he "can't have been in his right mind" and it "wasn't the Alan she knew".

It just seems like such an utter denial of what actually happened - which I totally get because we all do things when grieving that aren't usual or rational - but I just so strongly get the sense that people like Clodagh's mum are really trying to minimise the violence and construct narratives in which he shouldn't be held responsible. I'm really trying not to be political or hold people up to impossible standards here, but...unless I do think we have to square up to the elephant in the room, which is how invested people are in excusing and denying male violence - look at how often it happens on here.

I hope she isn't being strong armed into this policy of forgiveness by the priest who is supporting her. Sorry to drag religion into it, but I do wonder.

Original poster
DoinItFine · 02/09/2016 17:59

I know, the priest convincing her to publicly forgive her daughter's murderer before she has even been buried sounds like a dodgy fucker.

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hollyisalovelyname · 02/09/2016 18:01

DoinItFine
I have to pick you up on the comment you made re the Craicnet thread.
I started it and I don't believe most people are stating that the family should be buried together.
I think it is a thread very like this one that regards Clodagh and the children as the victims and Alan as a murderer.
So many have praised the Linnea Dunne article and rightly so.

MaudGonneMad · 02/09/2016 18:02

Yes the Craicnet thread is overwhelmingly critical of the murderous Alan Hawes.

Original poster
DoinItFine · 02/09/2016 18:04

Sorry if I misrepresented the thread. I have read it all.

I was specifically talking about the response to the fact that they were being buried together, which seemed pretty accepting of the fact.

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