Cavan family annihilation by a "brilliant Dad"

[DoinItFine]

Is anyone else reading all about what an amazing guy Alan Hawe was with mounting disbelief and fury?

He stabbed his wife and three sons to death in a frenzied attack and then hung himself.

But poor him, he must have bern awful tortured. And he went to mass all the time.

Great Dad

You know when you read awful threads about abuse on MN and then out it comes "he's a great Dad", and you think "what does a man have to do to losr that label?"

Well apparently you can murder your 3 kids and still keep the Great Dad title.

Given that Alan isn't alive to stand trial, how far will an inquest go does anyone know? I'm thinking of the way deaths used to be reported: if there was any chance at all that what was probably suicide was an accident, it was called "death by misadventure" or somesuch to spare everyone's feelings. Given that in this case, mental health problems and diminished responsibilty would be the most "palatable" answer, is it likely to be recorded that way if at all possible and not search too hard for other explanations, or will there be a strong will to investigate very thoroughly and if it turns out that he was mentally fit enough to know what he was doing and be culpable,will they report that? If there is evidence of prior abuse (either on balance of probability or beyond reasonable doubt- I don't know what is used when it's an inquest not a civil or criminal court case) would that be officially recorded anywhere?

Usually here a lot comes out at the inquest. Gardai have already said that for the inquest they are going to be interviewing basically everyone the family knew to try to piece together the motivation.

The family had no previous contact with police, or mental health services so basically all they can work off is interviews and the notes left behind. It's gonna take ages.

Inquests usually are fairly robust. In previous murder-suicide cases quite a lot has come out and there have been criticisms afterwards in some cases where it was perceived that it might have been avoidable.

Good. I think it is in the public interest to get to the bottom of things and acknowledge reasons so that mental health services and/or domestic abuse victim support can be improved and strategies developed to identify future high risk cases, if possible. A good robust procedure is better for helping international research too....I think this kind of case is a good one to pool international knowledge.

Elendon
I hope your life is much better now.
I know an Irish person who wasn't buried with her husband because of what he did to her and her children.
He wasn't physically abusive to her/ them though. It was financial 'abuse'

A very interesting and I'd like to say "measured" thread.

Just to put aside for the moment the decision re the joint burial, and the donations to a suicide charity, does anyone know if a statement of condolence was given by Clodagh's school?

I really don't remember reading anything about her life, her hobbies, her friends, and I don't recall anything specific from her Head or Deputy Head, apart from media reports that she was a teacher in a school nearby.

The mass murder was well planned IMV. The night before the week of schools reopening, everyone at home, and axe (a fkn axe omg) and knives readied.

Clodagh's mother calling next day so he knew they would be found pretty quickly rather than lying there for days.

Just sickening. It may or may not be true that he was an abuser, but the chances are high. Poor Clodagh was airbrushed out of things, and was made out to be a nobody, an adjunct of her murdering husbnd, a mouse.

Poor thing was probably in bits and terrified every single day.

I also wonder if Clodagh had indicated that she was leaving, or that the murderer found out that she was planning to leave.

Most of us know that the most dangerous time is right there in an abusive/controlling relationship.

xexxy, the Belfast Telegraph reported on Tuesday- halfway through their article and straight after the statement from the principal of the school where Alan taught and the boys had attended- a statement from the principal where Clodagh taught. The head said that she was a "much loved and valued teacher" and will be "greatly missed by all who knew her".
In another section somebody who went to school with her is quoted as saying that she was lovely and that she saw her "now and again" . It doesn't say how close they were now.
I would also like to know about her close friends and hobbies. If she had any. If she was allowed any.

This is sickening. I can partly understand the "he seemed like a good man" comment. Because to the outside world he probably did. The way he killed his children and wife sounded frenzied and calculated. I also wonder what the text from the older son meant. I'd be interested to see what he put in the note.

powershower,

Thanks for that information. Very glad she got a mention from her school, I just didn't see it.

I wonder too if she was allowed out except when accompanied by HIM.

A lot of information about HIM, the GAA, the handball, pillar of society and so on, but nothing about Clodagh and what she did in her townland/parish.

I did read somewhere that she was a very quiet person. I could read more into that, but what good would it do now?

I'm trying to be balanced here, I suppose it is possible that she never went out, or didn't have any involvement in the local scene. But with three young boys, I would wonder.

m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/stop-making-excuses-for-alan-hawe-he-killed-three-sons-and-wife-with-hatchet-and-knives-35024458.html

Above article points out likely difference in reporting if he'd hacked to death pupils and teachers at his school rather than his chattels family.

A relative of Clodagh has come out saying he was controlling and manipulative.

Thanks for linking, power.

That's a great article.

Really FayKorgasm?

Where?

I hadn't seen that.

The level of rage against his family he would have to do what he did does not spark overnight. You don't need the brains of an archbishop to figure out this rage was premeditated and brewing for years from the heart of a monster not some "nice guy who snapped".
Really upsetting case.
Speechless at the reaction of her family tbh. But my sister was abused by her exh and my mother still sees him as a good guy so I've seen this before.

It's in The Sun. Just says "a relative" but no other details. Doesn't sound like Facebook talk, sounds more like someone talking directly to the paper.

Hasn't been picked up by anyone else yet, it seems.

That Sun article is bullshit.

It's just bald assertions from someone claiming to be an anonymous relative.

That's a great article power - it's a shame that it's come after days of apologist tripe rather than being the automatic response isn't it?

I'm not the least bit surprised that a relative has called him controlling - I wonder who they are relation-wise in order to have seen this when others apparently haven't?

It does sound a bit too pithy and perfectly phrased for some ordinary randomer but that could just be the cynical devil on my shoulder.

I'm also a bit suss about someone who talks so vehemently but has no actual new information or insight.

Would The Sun be that brazen though?

Great link Power, and thanks for posting. Says it all really.

Can I just say re the forensics. If fear was involved then there would be lactic acid and cortisol in the victims bodies, via blood and other bodily fluids. I do hope the forensics were done properly given the hasty burial.

Just regarding this. Cortisol and lactic acid indicate that fear was involved. The victims knew they were being attacked. It's a defence mechanism. If none of these bodily responses were detected in the blood it means that they were attacked whilst asleep. In other words calculated murder.

And if the presence of the Lactic acid and Cortisol is there, then what sort of hell must those people have gone through. Unimaginable.

They had defensive injuries, Elendon . Especially the six year old, apparently. Fought and fought to stop his daddy hacking him to death.

There were defensive wounds on Clodagh and the six year old little boy, indicating that they knew what was happening and tried to fight back.

Awful. Just awful. Especially as he was described as a great dad. What about a loving husband? No one said this.

Sickening.

Would The Sun be that brazen though?

Yes