Magdalen Berns

[itsbetterthanabox]

Anyone seen Magdalen Berns? She's an Edinburgh student who does some fantastic feminist videos and activism. She is a lesbian and has gone up against Ada J Wells and been banned from the Edinburgh LGBT society. I think she needs our support!
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCvTTakI97sQ4SkMnsH8r0qQ

[Datun]

Thing is red, I'm pretty sure most people would use the alternative pronouns on an individual basis. Women don't tend to be rude and unkind. It's not about attacking individuals. It's about getting to the root of an ideology which is increasingly putting women at the bottom of the pile.

It's largely come about following the issue of self identification. Where a transperson needs no other criteria whatsoever other than simply saying I am a woman. They wouldn't have to have surgery, live as a woman (whatever that means) nor present as one.

From a legal viewpoint, it means they can access women only scholarships, compete against women in sport, access female bathrooms, rape refuges, prisons, etc. This is something that is already happening. It's not tomorrow or next year, it's now. There are many examples online.

It also damages women by suggesting womanhood is nothing more than an internal feeling.

Most women, including feminists, are delighted to see a blurring of the genders. Women, historically, have been treated less than fairly based on their biology by having typically female gender roles reinforced. To reduce 'being a woman' to nothing more than saying so, and donning a dress, particularly if it's made legal, makes it very difficult for women to identify themselves based on their biology (see the examples above where biology doesn't count).

It's not about unkindness or rudeness, The trans-activists have forced people to take it way beyond that. It's about the erosion of women's rights.

I recommend you go online or read some more threads on MN. Many people started as allies - why wouldn't you just live and let live, after all? But when a tiny minority are campaigning for the right to be called women means your 11 year old daughter suddenly has to share her showers with boys at school or men at a public pool, it becomes a lot more than that.

I think most people are under the impression that transwomen are attracted to men (i.e. gay) and have had surgery. This is not the case. And it is generally not those individuals who are creating the fuss, which is why you often get a disconnect when women know transwomen like that - they're fairly harmless and don't insist they are actually women.

[RedMapleLeaf]

Thank you datun, lots for me to think about carefully before I reply.

[Datun]

red

Danielle Muscato is a transwoman. Also a transactivist. If the current legislation goes ahead, they will legally be a woman. They will be included as a woman in stats so would be recorded female if they committed a crime (and would go to a woman's prison), or included as a woman in medical stats who didn't get cervical cancer or supervise girls in a dorm, or become a rape counsellor at a refuge, etc.

And yes, the number of people like this, is currently very few. But it's surprising how they are managing to get laws changed under the noses of everyone. It would take a lot of naivety to think that this is not going to be exploited. By either a predatory transwoman, or any common or garden predator who decides they can identify as a woman for their own gain.

It's also worth noting that transwomen retain male pattern violence. 98% of sexual violence is committed by men and this figure doesn't magically change because you identify as a woman.

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

Red, aren't you holding women to an unfairly higher standard than men and transwomen there? They can call us bigots and a whole lot worse but we must always be polite and kind in our response to them?

[RedMapleLeaf]

I have absolutely no problem with her arguments. I think I'm saying that calling someone by a name or pronoun that they've asked you not to is immature and rude and actually undermines your point.

When I've seen it done in other contexts I've always thought it unnecessarily unkind. I don't believe that this is double-standards because I would hold everyone to it.

I think there's a danger here that dwelling on my point (about avoiding unkindness towards a specific person whilst arguing with them) draws attention away from the far larger and more important points.

[Datun]

red they're not doing it to be rude and probably wouldn't do it in a social setting. It's not driven by rudeness or unkindness, it's the entire basis for the transactivists ideology. If you don't point out that they are men, it's game over. One can easily accept that they are men, presenting as women and address them accordingly, as long as it doesn't descend into an assertion that they ARE actually women and all women's rights get handed over.

It's so fundamental to both the political and legal argument, people ignore it at their peril.

[Datun]

You've got perceived rudeness on one side and an erosion of womanhood and women's rights on the other. Weigh it up.

[WelshMoth]

I think there's a danger here that dwelling on my point (about avoiding unkindness towards a specific person whilst arguing with them) draws attention away from the far larger and more important points.

YY and Y again, to this. The pronoun issue is a whisper-thin skimming of the surface as far as I'm concerned. Yet, it's what many focus on because it's the first stone they can pick up and throw at women who are meeting the TRA's head on.

[RedMapleLeaf]

You've got perceived rudeness on one side and an erosion of womanhood and women's rights on the other. Weigh it up.

I don't think that there's a choice to be made. I think that if she played the ball and not the player she'd be doing women's rights a far better service.

[RedMapleLeaf]

I also meant to add originally one of my first impressions aside from her actual argument (and style) and that that is I admire her doing this not under an alias.

[0phelia]

Hi MB fans.
She's done a fab vid responding to Everyday Feminism. Watch it if u haven't already!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=bnrOLhx6L3c

[HelenDenver]

Thanks

[MrsGWay]

Another fantastic video. Is any word allowed to keep its meaning? we will not be able to have any means of meaningful communication soon.

[BenLinusatemyhomework]

That vid is great. I love MB, clear, factual and often funny - what's not to like?

[Bambambini]

I struggle with pronouns as somone who used to buy the whole born in the wrong body, born with a female brain, tw are real women etc.

I can't call a transwoman "she" or "a woman" - so i usually go with the cowardly safer option of "they" or use their name - i will call them male though. I totally see the point of those who do use "he" and "man" though. It was this total misuse, pretence , be nice, be in denial way ofthinking that partly got us to this place in the first place.

To use words, descriptions and meanings (pronouns etc) that you feel you are being forced to use even though you think they are wrong, delusional, insulting and harmful to women - is sort of upsetting. You feel you are being coerced to harm your own kind.

TW have raped and sexually assaulted women and girls - do you think they should also have to play the game and call their attackers "women" and "she" - if not - why not.

Not ecplainef all this well - just that women who are gender critical often don't enjoy misgendering and being pedantic. I doubt most are not doing it to be funny, smart, cruel, hurtful etc - they might even have struggled with it. I do but i think it's an important point even though it might make us look mean and extreme.

[Bambambini]

Redmapleleaf

Also don't underestimate how aggressive and vengeful some transactivists are, i really admire the courage of those who speak out openly - using their own name. I watched a hideous man on twitter target a journslist. This woman is disabled and battling csncer and had to deal with this narcissistic deluded arse trying to bring her down. Writing to her employers demanding she be sacked and demanding an apology. Trying to whip up a lynch mob against her. She's a very strong woman but you could feel some panic and fear in her replies.

[KnittedBlanketHoles]

I love MB YouTube videos. Does anyone have any recommendations for similar channels?

[Twogoats]

I love Magdalen! She's so funny and smart!

[MrsGWay]

I watched another this morning. I think what infuriates me the most is how hypocritical the trans agenda is.

Mis pronouning is literal violence but calling women cuntscum isn't, sending them dick pics is fine too. Coercing (ie raping) lesbians by bullying usn't violence in their opinion.

Transing all children is fine even though 80% shouldn't have been. We can ignore adult detransitioners because they are the minority among adults.

[banivani]

She's my first subscription (aside from the ones my son has on my YT account, lol, so it's MB + stupid stuff like Dan TDM (a pox upon all gaming videos). ;) Love it.

[0phelia]

The most interesting point in this latest video re "misgendering is violence" comes towards the end.
Catholics are not demanding we call priests father.
Muslims are not demanding we all wear a burka.
But trans ideologists are demanding that we all adopt their belief and change the way we adress them.

This upcoming potential legislation looks worrying and if it were put through, MB would be sentenced with a criminal conviction!

[ChocChocPorridge]

If I required everyone call me Lady ChocChoc, people might humour me, they might be nice, but they're under no obligation to - since I'm not a Lady (by more than one interpretation)

This is how I view pronouns. It's nice to do it, but it's not grammatically correct, so there's nothing wrong with not doing it either.

[Datun]

Riley J Dennis seems to be under the impression that sex, like gender, is a purely social construct.

Basing this on a collection of attributes which define sex. Chromosomes, hormones, genitals, gonads and secondary sex characteristics.

She says that as you can change them all except chromosomes (conveniently leaving out reproductive organs) and as you can't tell someone's chromosomes by looking at them, sex is a social construct.

Thick doesn't really cover it. But I lose words when confronted by this rubbish.

[Bambambini]

"But trans ideologists are demanding that we all adopt their belief and change the way we adress them."

Laws forcing people to use certain pronouns/words are already happening in Canada. Check out the furore surrounding Jordan Peterson, a Canadian uni professor regarding his views on free speech on gender identity.

[ChocChocPorridge]

The whole 'sex is a social construct' thing is ridiculous.

That's not where babies come from. The fact that I have a place where babies come from, and DP doesn't means that sex is a reality, not a construct, and obviously people like Riley know it. They just choose to ignore it. Because men can choose to ignore it, they don't bleed once a month, and risk growing a new human inside them every time they have sex!