Math Magazine and 'good' porn.

[MrsToddsShortcut]

While I can see what she is trying to do, is the concept of 'nice'/'good' porn still not skirting around the same ballpark as all the hideous, damaging degrading stuff? It's still effectively saying porn is okay. Or would you say this is closer to erotic writing, I.e no real people involved? Is it just the wide end of a very nasty wedge? Genuinely not sure how I feel about this.

Huff post article about Math magazine

Arse!

Link Fail!

Sorted now

Pornography robs individuals of the opportunity to develop their own sexual behaviour and sexual preferences. There is no need to generate your own preferences because pornography does all the work for you

Yes , that makes sense. I'm not convinced at the suggestion of showing commercial porn films to a class and letting them deconstruct it has any value.

Thanks Xenophile always interesting to read articles on this issue.

I think she relies too heavily on the - you think you like it but you don't really argument. The writer says porn promotes enjoyment of "What we think we should like". The emphasis being on should. Well some people actually do like it - I refer to the face slapping thread, where the issue is consent not slapping.

To use a light hearted anology, fifty years ago no one liked Thai food. Well of course we didn't as we had never seen it or eaten it. Tastes change.

As a feminist my biggest concern is that young women struggle to express clearly what they want. They are pressured into having long hair on their head, removing pubic hair and to having anal sex. They should be able to choose what they want, not what we think they should want.

Mainstream porn creates a toxic environment. Feminist porn can help people make choices.

FWIW Dominatrix porn is actually very popular.

Lass - I would argue all education (done well) has value.

I watch girlsoutwest which is porn produced by women only and has much more natural women in it. I like porn but not the typical stuff you find out there. The lesbian stuff from GOW is much softer and real and closer to what really happens during sex.

Lass, with research pointing toward younger girls being shamed and coerced into taking part in ever more outlandish sexual acts with their pornsick teenage boyfriends, it's difficult to see how anyone can justify "porn as an educational tool".

I just spent one minute scrolling through the girlsoutwest website and it's the same misogynistic porno crap all "feminist porn" turns out to be.

Just like in other porn, "teen" and "amateur" (operating as a synonym for teen, naive, young, inexperienced) remain the most common adjectives used to describe the women, although there are very likely real

Well we could try to educate young people by just telling them "it's really bad and you shouldn't do it" however that is the least effective educational tool ever. Just say No - least effective marketing message of all time. Crap song too.

Or we could try censorship but again that doesn't work.

We could try shouting and say it's EVIL STOP IT, but that only irritates people.

We could try to shame them but that won't work either.

Or we could try to engage with people whose views we disagree with in a reasonable way. We could give some ground, to gain ground. If we talk to and listen to young people, give them analytical tools to form their own judgements.

We could consider feminist porn.

Or we could dismiss other people's views out of hand and regurgitate the same arguments.

Imso - thanks for the input. Don't let yourself get bullied off the thread.

Please knock off the drama queenery about how my posts are bullying and oppressive. You are not being victimized and your moaning about it got boring two pages ago.

You are free to share the recordings of prostituted women you masturbate with and explain why you think they avoid the failings of all other so-called "feminist porn."

Hmm, I think I'd rather that didn't happen.

I really have no need or desire to see a woman being harmed for other people's sexual gratification.

If that's going to be posted, then can a warning be posted please?

Or we could try to engage with people whose views we disagree with in a reasonable way. We could give some ground, to gain ground. If we talk to and listen to young people, give them analytical tools to form their own judgements.

Well I think that's what sillage has been doing. You won't have it unless we admit porn is great. At least we've moved on from consent now .

People don't need porn to own their sexuality and understand what they do or don't like.

bitof are you still feeling ok about watching it after these discussions? What do you get out of it that you couldn't get out of an eroticism book or a fully acted sex scene?

Lass, with research pointing toward younger girls being shamed and coerced into taking part in ever more outlandish sexual acts with their pornsick teenage boyfriends, it's difficult to see how anyone can justify "porn as an educational tool".

Oh goodness yes. Educational value wasn't my suggestion. Bit mentioned it and I pondered that if there really are people who are unsure of the basic mechanics I suppose it might be possible in very strict conditions to show this. I suspect it would fail as actual porn however

People don't need porn to own their sexuality and understand what they do or don't like

They really don't.

"the drama queenery about how my posts are bullying and oppressive" - was I talking about you? If you want it own it.

"You won't have it unless we admit porn is great." The whole point of deconstructing text is to prove it is to question it. The whole (excuse me)
fucking point of deconstructing mainstream porn is to show it is not real. Big sigh, deep breath. You use mainstream porn to educate about how it is wrong ffs.

Are those breasts real? Would that happen in real life? Is she enjoying that? Did she agree to that? And when you have shown the issues you discuss it. Self fucking evidently. When given these analytical tools young people can make their own decisions.

Or you can just shout at them IN CAPITAL LETTERS.

Spillage - please I know my masturbatury habits are of interest to you but leave it alone.

Felas "what do you get out of it " can we leave my personal habits out of it and focus on the discussion.

And the question remains how would you educate young people?

Felas "what do you get out of it " can we leave my personal habits out of it and focus on the discussion.

Usually when a poster puts as much effort as you are doing in to trying to look for the good in porn they tend to be a male consumer of porn.

And the question remains how would you educate young people?

Not really. The question of educating young people and porn is a question you have created by conflating the issue of porn and education. I was willing to not dismiss the idea completely out of hand - hence my suggestion of very strictly controlled filming of this is what sex looks like.

Young people can be educated about the mechanical, physical, emotional and indeed political aspects of human sexuality without the need to resort to porn. So far as porn, it's probably enough to tell them it is at best unrealistic and at worst involves, coercion, pain, degradation and organised crime.

Yes that's right if you tell them it's bad they believe you. That's how education works. Good grief (face palm)

We all agree mainstream porn is not good for anyone. I not saying porn is good - I will say it again slowly - most mainstream porn is harmful but some ferminist porn can be positive.

My big issue with porn is not my own habits but the fact that it is mainstream. We can argue it is evil and then stand wrapped in our moral superiority while life happens around us.

Teens use porn = fact

"The question of educating young people and porn is a question you have created by conflating the issue of porn and education". Surely if we all care about anything it's marking sure young people make good choices??? If we want to stop young women being forced to have anal sex because of porn we have to educate people??

We can deal with the facts and confront the issues or pretend saying it is all too, too horrible make it go away?

If I lived in that world choice a = no porn.
But I don't live in that world and neither do you.

So given the world we live in how do we help educate our young people?

However, for the sake of full disclosure a tiny bit of feminist porn would be nice

Really bit of? Buffys second statement is exactly the world we live in. Most porn is violent, harmful or abusive to women. For all the reasons discussed in this thread.

As for educating, surely the best way for young people to learn about sex is in the context of a mutually respectful relationship, backed up by support from adults who are open to discussing any concerns (hopefully parents). Not by watching strangers perform acts that aren't realistic or satisfying to lots of people.

Btw I'm not asking about personal habits. Just curious why you are so wedded to porn as a positive force. None of your arguments to date hold water. But of course its up to you if you aren't comfortable sharing.

Felas - she said I had a choice. That is not the choice we are presented with we do not get to choose. We have to live in this world.

I will say it again slowly.
The whole point of deconstructing mainstream porn is to show it is not real. Big sigh, deep breath. You use mainstream porn to educate about how it is wrong.

Are those breasts real? Would that happen in real life? Is she enjoying that? Did she agree to that? And when you have shown the issues you discuss it. Self fucking evidently. When given these analytical tools young people can make their own decisions.

Most teens have seen porn = fact
You are entirely correct that is not how they should learn but in the actual world we are actually living in most teens learn through porn. So we need to engage with reality.

I am deeply pained you are making this personal and I am trying really hard not to join in the "your frigid" no "your a slut" sensationalism. We all feminists and grown ups.

I could film myself punching you in the face to teach others how it's wrong to punch people in the face, but I would never do that and most people would reject such a twisted exercise in the name of "education".

Well yes bit of. Nothing to argue about there. It would be nice though, if ourr teens weren't exposed to this misogynistic bollocks so that wasn't necessary.
You came on to say porn could be a feminist choice. And yet you haven't illustrated any circumstances where this is the case. Using pork to educate children why pork is bad isn't feminist.
No one is talking frigid/slut. You are projecting. I did say you're over invested and I stand by that. Because your POV doesn't seem defensible so I think it must be based on the fact thatbelieving porn is ok is really important to you.

Porn not pork obvs