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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Can it be too easy to access a termination?

146 replies

LarryLobster · 20/07/2016 08:05

I've always thought that terminations should be available on demand (within time limits) but recent events have caused me to question this and I wonder what others think.

I live in the most equal country around at the moment. Terminations are available on demand, no questions asked. I thought this was a good thing. But a few weeks ago my daughter went to the GP feeling unwell and was blindsided on finding out she was pregnant. She said she didn't want it and within 2 hours had been given the abortion pill. Now I question the ease of it.

My daughter is a bit vulnerable, she is autistic, and this pill was administered on her say so, so quickly that I don't think she even had time to process the fact she was pregnant. She'd tried to get hold of me, her dad and her boyfriend but couldn't. So she'd had nobody to talk to. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely support her decision either way but my concern is about whether she would have made the same decision if she'd had more time to process it.

I remember the initial panic and terror I felt when I found out I was pregnant and that was a planned pregnancy. So what I'm asking is, is it in a woman's best interests to make such a momentous decision so quickly or should a woman's right to terminate be restricted slightly for her own benefit?

Sorry that's so garbled, I'm just trying to make sense of my thoughts.

OP posts:

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 22/07/2016 22:05

So it's OK to take abortion pills as long as you haven't tested your status to check whether younare still a person in your own right or whether you are now subordinate tona few cells that have changed the?hormones in your piss

Nice twisting of what I said.

I said absolutely nothing about taking the morning after pill being "Ok" (and presumably you are suggesting that I meant abortion is not OK?)

I do not agree the morning after pill is the same as an abortion.

Nowhere on this thread or any other abortion thread have I expressed the view abortion should not be legal or if you prefer "Ok"

Felascloak · 22/07/2016 22:09

A huge amount of embryos never implant though and don't have capacity to grow into life.
Cote do you think the copper coil, mirena and POP are also abortifacient? Or is the intention more important than the mechanism?
We could end up with a very Catholic view of contraception
Personally I believe there is a difference between a floating embryo and an implanted embryo. The floating embryo is having no effect on the mothers body at that point and so she isn't pregnant. To me abortion is ending pregnancy so the POP, coil and MAP aren't abortifacient as the woman isn't pregnant.

Felascloak · 22/07/2016 22:10

What about frozen embryos from fertility treatment, is it abortion to dispose of those?

MsPavlichenko · 22/07/2016 22:14

No. It's a medical procedure. The crucial issue is that it is carried out (in whatever way) by medical professionals in discussion with the woman concerned.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 22/07/2016 22:24

As far as I am concerned I am in favour of legal abortion. I have signed countless petitions about it and I donate to Abortion Network Support.

I have donated since their rather questionable decision to change their logo because I think what they are doing is so important it still deserves support.

None of that however stops me thinking that the end result of an embryo is a baby and I am not comfortable with that idea but pragmatism frankly tells me legal abortion is the only realistic stance.

Cote you can laugh and snigger and pull this post apart as much as you like. You have your opinion ; I have mine.

ReallyTired · 23/07/2016 00:01

"What about frozen embryos from fertility treatment, is it abortion to dispose of those?"

That is an extreme fundermental christian/ catholic view point.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10353338/The-pro-lifers-adopting-spare-embryos-created-during-IVF.html

I think its great if someone else's embryo can give an infertile couple the joy of having children. Its cheaper to "adopt" an embryo and avoids the mother having to simulate her ovaries with nasty chemicals to collect ova. However I think its nuts to consider it to be adoption.

caroldecker · 23/07/2016 01:02

It is not about life, but about bodily autonomy. I choose what i do with my body and any organs/things in it. Once they are out, other people can take over an I can move on. No-one has a right to tell me what i can do about thing in my body. An unwanted foetus is no different than a cancer.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 23/07/2016 01:27

Actually I think it's about life and bodily autonomy. As I said I support abortion rights and put my money where my mouth is and to that extent I agree it is about bodily autnomy . I can't agree however that a feotus, whether unwanted or not, is no different than a cancer.

Felascloak · 23/07/2016 09:08

really it's interesting to me because if one takes the position that an abortion is terminating potential life and the MAP causes abortion, then logically disposing of frozen embryos is also abortion. But then the fact the embryo isn't in the woman makes it seem different somehow and more acceptable.

differentnameforthis · 23/07/2016 09:10

I can't agree however that a feotus, whether unwanted or not, is no different than a cancer.. The way I felt about my unwanted pregnancy was so different to how I felt about my wanted pregnancies. I don't know about cancer, but I called mine a parasite. Which is exactly what it was.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 23/07/2016 09:25

But then the fact the embryo isn't in the woman makes it seem different somehow and more acceptable

It does. I will pre-empt any one taking time out of their busy day to point out how illogical I am being. It is illogical as those embryos also have a potential for life but it is different.

I do not have the absolute certainty of either the anti-abortion brigade or those who see no difference between a foetus and a cancer.

I suppose my position is abortion is wrong but denying a woman the right to have an abortion is also wrong. The 2 views are irreconcilable so therefore I have to pick one or the other and I cannot support denying women the right to have an abortion.

MangoMoon · 23/07/2016 10:08

I can see your point re the difference between MAP & abortion pill Lass, and I get why that would be an important distinction for the anti-abortion lot.
I also see what you mean about finding out you're pregnant not being so matter-of-fact & completely dispassionately logical for people.

In my circumstances (at 19, and then at 23) I got unintentionally pregnant (stupidity both times, no contraception failure).
I realised I was probably pregnant straight away after my period failed to happen - I have always been extremely regular, so 2 days after period had not happened I was at the doctor.

I knew absolutely that I did not want to continue, so an abortion pill taken then & there would have been brilliant - no fuss, no 'being pregnant', minimum emotion (if any).
Instead, at 19 I was 12 weeks pregnant before I was admitted for a surgical termination; at 23 I was 8 weeks pregnant before getting a medical termination (abortion pill).

Although I've never had a moments regret since both terminations, I was put through unnecessary emotional stress by having to wait so long - feeling your body changing etc is when it starts to become more 'real'.

microferret · 05/08/2016 14:17

She can get pregnant again if she wants to. No, I don't think it is too easy. Having a baby is something you either want or don't. Of course it will take her time to come to terms with what happened - that is natural and normal. It doesn't mean it was the wrong decision. I only wish I could have escaped two weeks of nausea and tearful misery when I had my unwanted pregnancy, rather than having to wait it out until my appointment.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 05/08/2016 14:35

OP, to a degree, you are going through what every mother experiences as daughters grow up. Most of us would probably like an opportunity to weigh in on such big decisions and feel in our heart of hearts that we are still a necessary part of that decision-making process. But we're not. Unless there is a reason why someone requires extra support (and this would apply to every decision they made regarding medical treatment), we do have to step back. I don't think the way to get young adults to 'think things through properly' is to make access to anything more difficult, either. Nor would it be fair to treat all women as if they were impetuous teenagers.

If your DD really isn't capable of making her own decisions around healthcare, that's a different conversation.

Hope she is happier soon

BapsOfSteel · 05/08/2016 16:11

Took me weeks from knowing I was pregnant to actually get an abortion in the uk. Made me feel much worse tbh. Your daughter won't regret her decision, few women do.

OreosAreTasty · 06/08/2016 22:02

I think that an appointment in at least 2-3 days time (whereby she could've been given the pill) would've been best. Not necessarily for the speed of it all but so she could have her DP/DM/DF with her at the time if she wanted it, could've thought it over a bit more (if she wanted to).
Don't think it was too easy.
Think it was too rushed. On page 2. Will read other comments and catch up

maggiethemagpie · 06/08/2016 22:35

If I found out I was pregnant, I'd have to abort fairly quickly due to the risks to my own health (pre existing condition). I would be sad, but the decision would be very, very easy as I wouldn't need time to think about it. So a decision can be emotionally tough but logically easy IYSWIM.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 07/08/2016 01:33

So a decision can be emotionally tough but logically easy IYSWIM

Yes that makes perfect sense. I've never been in a situation where I needed to have a termination. I've twice in my life when I wasn't pregnant (at 15 and 40) but had got it into my head, against all logic and evidence, that I might be. In both cases had I been pregnant I would have had a termination which pragmatically would have been the right thing for me to do but morally for me would have been wrong. In both cases had I been pregnant I would have had a termination and would have been a hypocrite for doing so.

nooka · 07/08/2016 06:39

Where I live medical abortions are not available (pill only just approved for some weird and no doubt politically influenced decision, apparently it's really new or some such conservative bullshit).

So if my dd became pregnant she'd not be able to take such swift and simple action but instead would have to get to the nearest city with a proper clinic (at least four hours drive and up to a three week wait for an appointment). Plus she'd have to wait until she was at least five weeks pregnant.

I do understand that the OP has had a shock, and her dd may have felt rushed, but I really think she should celebrate that women in her country have such a good service.

nooka · 07/08/2016 06:49

Oh now I've found out that there is a new distance service for medical abortions. It's pretty expensive but great to know there is another option just in case. Thanks OP :)

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 07/08/2016 13:55

I like how honest you are about the complexities of this lass. People usually choose a position and try to make out that it's water-tight in every way. It never is.

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