Can it be too easy to access a termination?

[LarryLobster]

I've always thought that terminations should be available on demand (within time limits) but recent events have caused me to question this and I wonder what others think.

I live in the most equal country around at the moment. Terminations are available on demand, no questions asked. I thought this was a good thing. But a few weeks ago my daughter went to the GP feeling unwell and was blindsided on finding out she was pregnant. She said she didn't want it and within 2 hours had been given the abortion pill. Now I question the ease of it.

My daughter is a bit vulnerable, she is autistic, and this pill was administered on her say so, so quickly that I don't think she even had time to process the fact she was pregnant. She'd tried to get hold of me, her dad and her boyfriend but couldn't. So she'd had nobody to talk to. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely support her decision either way but my concern is about whether she would have made the same decision if she'd had more time to process it.

I remember the initial panic and terror I felt when I found out I was pregnant and that was a planned pregnancy. So what I'm asking is, is it in a woman's best interests to make such a momentous decision so quickly or should a woman's right to terminate be restricted slightly for her own benefit?

Sorry that's so garbled, I'm just trying to make sense of my thoughts.

Yes scallops she does have some regrets about taking it. That's why I'm questioning the process, although other posters are right in that it's about the speed rather than the ease.

Bear in mind she didn't find out she was pregnant then seek a termination. She was told she was pregnant, then immediately asked if she wanted to proceed with the pregnancy, and 5 minutes later she's in a taxi to the hospital to have the pill (which has to be taken there in front of the medic).

But my question isn't about her decision. If I'm really honest there's a part of me that hugely relieved that she didn't get time to change her mind. I'm asking about the general principal because my daughter's experience makes me wonder if some women are at risk of making a decision they later regret.

I don't know, maybe I'm completely wrong and the evidence says that the initial gut response is rarely changed and prolonging the process just makes it harder by giving doubt time to creep in.

my daughter's experience makes me wonder if some women are at risk of making a decision they later regret

And as pp have said, for those some women it is a different issue, and not a reason to change things for everyone.

Any move to restrict abortion is wrong.

That's a very good point, Polter.

Choosing not to be pregnant is usually a decision that you don't want your life to change.

Maybe women should have to wait 2 days and attend counselling before having unprotected sex?

Getting a mortgage?

Accepting a job?

Quitting a job?

You've taken your own unique situation and want to use it to affect all women, for no good reason.

No I don't. I'm asking what others think, that's all. Just asking.

The op allows her dd to decide to take precautions against getting pregnant, until she IS pregnant. Then she isn't allowed to decide not to be pregnant.

That is not what I've said at all.

So she was asked whether she wanted to proceed? She was given a choice. If she was unsure she could have said at that time. It wasn't a "you have to act now and your decision is final" moment. However, if she felt railroaded into the decision then that is quite a different matter. No woman should feel that either.

Termination is always a decision you may later regret, especially if you are in two minds about it. No matter how long you think about it there is always that risk (as there is to all one-way decisions).

I'm sorry she is having some regrets though. That must be shitty for her.

The whole teen with ASD thing is a red herring. If she isn't capable of making decisions about her body in the context of abortion, then she is also not capable of making decisions about her body in the context of sexual consent.

That's not necessarily true, but in any case, the whole thing verges IMO on the "enforced sterilisation/contraception/termination" end of things for those with learning disabilities.

And that is a consent matter - I don't think medical consent and sexual consent are necessarily at the same level. Medical consent can be more trivial or at least requiring less thought (someone who is drugged or drunk might be conscious enough to consent to an emergency medical procedure) or can be more serious and long-lasting (someone who understands the implications of sleeping with her boyfriend may not understand the implications of taking part in a medical research trial).

Also it is not true that everyone who takes contraception intending not to become pregnant would automatically terminate a pregnancy because they found they were pregnant having originally intended not to become pregnant. Isn't it something like 1/3 of pregnancies are unplanned but still desired?

The latter though is not too relevant in this case. I am more worried that an individual who may have slightly limited decision-making capabilities was not offered support to make a medical decision - it really does smack of "we've decided this option is best for you".

No I don't. I'm asking what others think, that's all. Just asking

But you haven't thought about the perspective you're asking from, and that of those you are asking. Never mind about this recent experience, you're in a country that has full on demand access, and you're talking about restricting it. But you're talking to women who are already restricted, and, a smaller group of women who live in a country where they have NO access at all to abortion, its completely illegal.
Can you imagine how that comes across, you as a women who has the rights we are fighting very hard to get, to talk about restricting it "for your own good"? Can you see how that might be viewed as offensive and demeaning?

I don't agree with a two day wait. But some form of emotional support /counselling should be available on the same day the woman requests termination, so that women only have terminations for the right reasons, i.e. because they want them. Rather than their partner or family have influenced them.

The only reason to have a termination is to end that particular pregnancy. Further than that it is up to the individual woman.

Otherwise who decides the 'right' reason?

I have had several operations, I wasn't offered counselling. I have had some unpleasant medical procedures eg colonoscopy, again withuot counselling.

My mother had two separate mastectomies and a hysterectomy no counselling.

Why is termination any different?

"I have had several operations, I wasn't offered counselling. I have had some unpleasant medical procedures eg colonoscopy, again withuot counselling.

My mother had two separate mastectomies and a hysterectomy no counselling.

Why is termination any different?"

Abortions can leave the woman with a tremendous sense of guilt. There is a viewpoint that abortion is murder. Sometimes people suffer terrible depression after an abortion.

Maybe everything happened so fast that the op daughter had little time to think what she wanted.

I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend or demean anyone. I thought a feminism board was the right place to discuss this. Clearly not.

Thank you everyone for your input, it's been very thought provoking. Again, I'm sorry for offending and demeaning you all.

We'll just have to disagree there Drspouse.

In my experience they are pretty much exactly the same.

My life has been far more affected by my decision to have a gland removed than by my decision to have a termination.

Should I have been forced into counselling to make sure I didn't regret permanently affecting my metabolism?

People who think abortion is murder can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. They don't even believe women are people, so they get no say in our access to medical care.

I apologise for how that came across, I appreciate you didn't intend that. But can you see my point of view at all?

Abortions can leave the woman with a tremendous sense of guilt. There is a viewpoint that abortion is murder. Sometimes people suffer terrible depression after an abortion

As you can after mastectomy, sterilization, ectopic pregnancy.

Sometimes people suffer terrible depression after giving birth, but we don't offer people ttc counselling.

Larry, this was the "right place" to discuss it, the fact that you didn't get the answers you wanted notwithstanding.

Abortions can leave the woman with a tremendous sense of guilt. There is a viewpoint that abortion is murder. Sometimes people suffer terrible depression after an abortion

I've never met anyone sensible who honestly thinks that abortion is murder. That's a viewpoint that seems to be held only by people who think that women simply can't be trusted to think for themselves.

sash I don't think ending a pregnancy is the right reason to have a termination. I think the pregnant woman deciding independently to end the pregnancy is the only reason to have a termination. Rather than because she has been persuaded to think she should have one by someone/s else.

However like I said I don't see how you could practically ensure that doesn't happen, unless you start making all the women who have decided for themselves justify their decisions or wait.

I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend or demean anyone. I thought a feminism board was the right place to discuss this. Clearly not.

No, it's exactly the right place to discuss it, Larry. However, it's also likely to mean that people will question your own motivations for posting the question in the first place: did you realise that proposing to restrict access to abortion for any reason was going to be unpopular? Or that your question implied you thought there was a difference between the kind of consent required for sexual activity and medical intervention? Making people examine their preconceptions and implicit assumptions is fairly standard fare on this board.

Thank you everyone for your input, it's been very thought provoking. Again, I'm sorry for offending and demeaning you all.

I'm not offended or demeaned. Feminists don't have a hive mind where we all collectively are offended or pleased about the same things. I'm glad it's been thought-provoking, though, and I'd prefer if you stuck around for more discussion.

And I hope your DD feels better about her decision soon. I'm sorry it's caused her distress

Larry, you haven't offended anyone. I hope your daughter is ok. If she felt she was rushed through this then she was rushed through this. No one should feel this has been done at anything other than their own pace - and if she didn't get that then something is wrong.

All I was saying is, delays should not be built in. The pace I wanted/needed was rapid and automatic as soon as I said what I wanted. Perhaps your daughter wanted something different - ie, dr sketches out the options and she is left some time to think about it. The dr should have been able to do that whilst at the same time ensuring that I get the termination I want without any further delay.

I'm sure no-one gets frogmarched to the doctor or even forced to take the pill.

In the example you gave I'd be thrilled that your vulnerable dd was helped quickly. Would you rather she had to wait for weeks? And possibly have to have an invasive procedure? In your hoes I'd be grateful. (And if she's vulnerable try to make sure she can contact her emergency contacts in future.)

Abortions can leave the woman with a tremendous sense of guilt. There is a viewpoint that abortion is murder. Sometimes people suffer terrible depression after an abortion

Mostly because it's a learned response that has been drummed into us culturally... A celeb can't talk about a previous abortion without adding the usual 'I think about my baby every day, I'll always feel guilty.' Because they'd get vilified from every direction otherwise.

I think it's disgusting that a woman chooses to do the right thing for her life, and for her existing children and is then expected to feel like a terrible human being afterwards.

I'm certainly not offended Larry and I live in one of those places you can't access abortion on demand and if you buy pills through women on web you can be criminalised.

Did I feel guilty after, yes. Actually I had very bad depression and it wrecked my relationship for years to come. Part of that was having to wait, going through the morning sickness, all the time aware of what was growing inside of me. I wish I could have just taken a pill earlier. It would have been cleaner and easier and I wouldn't have felt as bad about it all.

I hope your daughter is ok, maybe some post abortion counselling may benefit her

Time to think it through is crucial so there is a handle on regret afterwards. She can think I regret but I thought it through and then it is easier to process. She might not feel regret. Time is important for any medical procedure unless it's an emergency. Is there counselling for her to access