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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Can it be too easy to access a termination?

146 replies

LarryLobster · 20/07/2016 08:05

I've always thought that terminations should be available on demand (within time limits) but recent events have caused me to question this and I wonder what others think.

I live in the most equal country around at the moment. Terminations are available on demand, no questions asked. I thought this was a good thing. But a few weeks ago my daughter went to the GP feeling unwell and was blindsided on finding out she was pregnant. She said she didn't want it and within 2 hours had been given the abortion pill. Now I question the ease of it.

My daughter is a bit vulnerable, she is autistic, and this pill was administered on her say so, so quickly that I don't think she even had time to process the fact she was pregnant. She'd tried to get hold of me, her dad and her boyfriend but couldn't. So she'd had nobody to talk to. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely support her decision either way but my concern is about whether she would have made the same decision if she'd had more time to process it.

I remember the initial panic and terror I felt when I found out I was pregnant and that was a planned pregnancy. So what I'm asking is, is it in a woman's best interests to make such a momentous decision so quickly or should a woman's right to terminate be restricted slightly for her own benefit?

Sorry that's so garbled, I'm just trying to make sense of my thoughts.

OP posts:

Backingvocals · 20/07/2016 10:01

I agree reallytired that those days should be available if you want them. But if you don't, then not. Rapid access does not equal coercion if you know what you want. If you don't know what to do then you are in a different position.

FWIW I also think that we should hear more about the thousands of women (of whom I am one) who wanted an abortion the second they knew about the pregnancy, got one and felt absolutely fine about it. My prevailing emotion was gratitude that I live in a society where this is my right. The need to create a drama where there isn't one is really unhelpful. For some women it is a really difficult decision. For others, it's simple. We never hear about that side of it because we have to freight it with guilt and emotion so that we can continue to tell women they don't know their own minds.

BayLeaves · 20/07/2016 10:04

I'm not sure either OP.

What if a woman is pressured into terminating by her partner or other external influences. If it's as easy as walking up and asking, without any due diligence, and 2 hours later you're no longer pregnant, and potentially left in physical and emotional pain, surely that is "too easy"... Argh it's an ethical and practical minefield.

DoinItFine · 20/07/2016 10:05

FWIW I also think that we should hear more about the thousands of women (of whom I am one) who wanted an abortion the second they knew about the pregnancy, got one and felt absolutely fine about it.

I am also one.

Although I could have done without the secret trip overseas to pay for it privately.

That was a bit traumatic.

BertrandRussell · 20/07/2016 10:06

But if you enforce a "waiting" period aren't women more vulnerable to coercion while they wait?

DoinItFine · 20/07/2016 10:08

Giving women access to medical care isn't really an ethical minefield.

Having access to a quick termination might be essential for a woman whose partner got her pregnant against her will and would attempt to prevent an abortion.

ReallyTired · 20/07/2016 10:08

Op daughter has autism which makes her more vulnerable. There are people who think that a teen with learning difficulties should have an abortion. A teen with autism will comply with advice from a health professional and may not realise she has a choice.

Waiting two days for an abortion is not a significant delay. In the uk the problem comes when women are forced to wait weeks.

ReallyTired · 20/07/2016 10:10

"Having access to a quick termination might be essential for a woman whose partner got her pregnant against her will and would attempt to prevent an abortion."

Such a women needs a place in a woman's refugee and help to get out of such an abusive relationship. Waiting two days to think through her options will not harm her.

DoinItFine · 20/07/2016 10:14

Waiting two days to think through her options will not harm her.

Yes, like carrying foetuses with no brains to term "doesn't harm" women

Pro-lifers are so keen to decide what is not harmful for women and what they must endure as a result.

Clearly two extra days of being pregnant is extremely risky for a woman in a relationship that involves reproductive coercion.

BertrandRussell · 20/07/2016 10:15

"Waiting two days to think through her options will not harm her."

But what right has the medical establishment to impose this?

DoinItFine · 20/07/2016 10:15

If there is an issue with the OP's daughter's ability to consent, that shoukd have no implications for the ability of any woman to ever consent.

sashh · 20/07/2016 10:21

Op daughter has autism which makes her more vulnerable But the OP was happy to let her go to the Dr alone and be out of phone contact, surely if she was so vulnerable she would have taken a friend/advocate with her.

Xenophile · 20/07/2016 10:26

A teen with autism will comply with advice from a health professional and may not realise she has a choice.

This is so utterly wrong that I can't even begin to tell you the ways. Teens with autism question everything. If you think that getting a person with autism to do anything against their will is just a case of getting a doctor to tell them to do it, then you really know zip about ASD.

Waiting two days for an abortion is not a significant delay.

It is if you no longer wish to be pregnant.

In the uk the problem comes when women are forced to wait weeks.

I thought the OP was in Sweden.

The whole teen with ASD thing is a red herring. If she isn't capable of making decisions about her body in the context of abortion, then she is also not capable of making decisions about her body in the context of sexual consent.

If, on the one hand, you're fine with her being capable of giving informed consent to sex, then you also have to be fine with her being capable of giving consent to routine medical procedures.

If you're suggesting that she is incapable of giving consent to medical procedures, you also have to say that she is incapable of giving consent to sex, and therefore the pregnancy is a result of rape. Even the most frothy and rabid of anti-choicers tends to make exceptions for women who are pregnant as a result of rape, and therefore she should have been able to access medical care in this case as well.

caroldecker · 20/07/2016 10:28

Surely this reduces to banning contraception so women can 'come to terms' with whether they want children at any point, or doctors and counselors being involved before any contraception is used?
She was using contraception, so did not want to become pregnant, and she isn't. Only you and society are making it a big deal.

differentnameforthis · 20/07/2016 10:30

How old is your daughter?

eyebrowsonfleek · 20/07/2016 10:38

I think a 2 day wait could have massive implications on someone's mental health. Think about how anxious women who are actively ttc get during the 2WW. The 2 day wait would be like a punishment. Some women know that they want an abortion and don't have lingering feelings later.

PolterGoose · 20/07/2016 10:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sirona · 20/07/2016 10:50

I live in a country where it's not that easy and you have to travel overseas to get an abortion. I share DoinitFine's experience and having to wait was massively traumatic for me.

differentnameforthis · 20/07/2016 10:52

Me! The only emotion I felt was guilt because I felt relieved that it was over.

Lurkedforever1 · 20/07/2016 10:54

I don't agree with a two day wait. But some form of emotional support /counselling should be available on the same day the woman requests termination, so that women only have terminations for the right reasons, i.e. because they want them. Rather than their partner or family have influenced them.

In reality though, I think that would just play out as women having to justIfy their choice, because we don't have the facilities to provide the type of experts to do the above properly. So on balance a quick route is better for women in general.

differentnameforthis · 20/07/2016 11:01

But if you enforce a "waiting" period aren't women more vulnerable to coercion while they wait?

Yes. I had to wait a few weeks for my termination. I found out beginning of Dec and it happened the 2nd week in Jan (because of case load & Christmas - couldn't afford private) Two people tried to coerce me into keeping it, including dh. Which was hard, because he should have known how much I needed to not be pregnant. It tore through our marriage and it took me at least a yr to see why he could do that. Several years on, and it still sticks in my head that he was one of the biggest issues in how I felt at that time. And why I felt so much guilt for being relieved when it was all over. Had I not been so adamant, I am pretty sure he would have successfully changed my mind.

scallopsrgreat · 20/07/2016 11:05

Does she have any regrets now about taking the pill?

Presumably she was given the pill. She didn't have to take at that moment though did she?

You are basically saying that you don't trust your daughters judgement on this. How do you think she would feel if she knew you thought that? How do think other women feel about you thinking that they shouldn't be trusted with that decision until they've had a cooling off period ?

differentnameforthis · 20/07/2016 11:15

I'm asking if it's right that women are asked to make life changing decisions in an extremely vulnerable moment and whether safeguards should be in place to protect them.

If you think your daughter's SN makes her unable to give informed consent for medical matters then you may need to do something about that with the GP

I agree! If she is that vulnerable, and you think she should have been given time to process/discuss, surely you all let her down by thinking she was able to cope with medical matters by herself. I mean, I get that you didn't know she was pregnant, but either she is allowed to access medical assistance, and consent to procedures by herself or she is not. You cannot pick & choose what she can consent to.

I made a life changing decision while I was, I would say, at my most vulnerable, regarding my termination. And ime, if someone offered me an abortion pill when I told them I was pregnant & didn't want to be, I would bitten their hand off.

A teen with autism will comply with advice from a health professional and may not realise she has a choice. Then that teen should be chaperoned so someone else can help her make that decision. Not left alone to navigate the medical world by herself.

Such a women needs a place in a woman's refugee and help to get out of such an abusive relationship. Waiting two days to think through her options will not harm her. A woman (on finding out she is pregnant with an unplanned, unwanted baby, which could very well be the result of marital rape) who is susceptible to EA by a partner will probably not be in any position, emotionally, to access a refuge, and two days gives her abuser enough time to coerce her into keeping a baby she doesn't want. And that doesn't end well.

Xenophile great post. Especially about the consent issue wrt to termination v sex.

ChocChocPorridge · 20/07/2016 11:15

A two day enforced wait is an awful idea - what if that woman is in an abusive relationship, tracked every moment (it comes up a lot on relationships) - now she has to escape twice? What about if you're in a low-paid job, and can't afford to or just can't get the time off easily.

If you want to wait, you can, if you want it now, you should be able to. Anything else is paternalistic garbage to try to prevent a woman having full control of her own body.

OP's daughter can have sex, was taking contraception, why, when it comes to stopping a pregnancy is she suddenly not competent? And why should that then necessitate all other women being assumed to not be competent?

differentnameforthis · 20/07/2016 11:19

I posted too soon...

The op allows her dd to decide to take precautions against getting pregnant, until she IS pregnant. Then she isn't allowed to decide not to be pregnant.

FreedomIsInPeril · 20/07/2016 11:19

I'm asking if it's right that women are asked to make life changing decisions in an extremely vulnerable moment and whether safeguards should be in place to protect them

You're asking if women need to be prevented from getting quick access to abortion for their own good, with measures put in place to tell women that they are not allowed to make their own decision on their own timeline because you think someone else should be able to intervene.

No, is the answer. You've taken your own unique situation and want to use it to affect all women, for no good reason. You should be looking at the area of informed consent NOT restricting access to abortion for everyone else.

Hard cases make bad law.

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