Why do (some) men sexually abuse/rape?

[tryingtomakesenseoflife]

Can you help me understand why men sexually abuse. I've experienced a range from a pretty awful rape by a friend - to, in longterm marriage, a low level level of coercion and ignoring consent over certain small acts - and in years past experiences that fall in between like unwanted drunken sex.

This is just background to my post. I'm less concerned about addressing my individual circumstances, more in hearing thoughts about why men do this.

It seems to me like a lot of men to different degrees ignore or push the boundaries re consent. (Not all of course)

Are there explanations or understandings of this, including in a wider context, I don't know exactly what I'm asking. I just want to understand a bit more, like has this always been an issue throughout history? Was it understood differently? What is the link to gender roles? To biology? Are the different ends of the spectrum about the same thing?

I couldn't see another thread addressing this but happy to be directed.

Again, I think it is empathy - men think sex is something you do, like drinking coffee. Sometimes it is great, sometimes less good.
They do not understand the violation and powerlessness of women in that situation.

I guess I wasn't going to be told how to pretend it isn't so and happily ignore it!

I really struggle with empathy for being able to ignore when your actions, any actions, impact others or if you do see it you can override/ignore that knowledge.

I live in the almost entirely female world of having young children. So actually there is no day to day problem other than in my head.

Buffy, thank you. Maybe that would be useful but even though I want to understand things I'm not always as dispassionate as I try to be, so can get overwhelmed.

MN is great. Maybe when I'm ready to engage with the real world I will do it differently.

A decent explanation would require a lengthy academic paper examining human psychology from the dawn of modern civilisation some 5000 years ago. I'm definitely not going to do that!

Leaving aside the background, we're not in a culture that truly values emotional and psychological well-being, and perhaps most people struggle to find happiness and fulfillment in their lives. All the posts here on MN are proof of that!

The disappointment of not having one's core needs met causes massive pain, frustration, anger and sadness - and each individual has to deal with it somehow. A few have perhaps been taught in childhood how to do that, a few more have managed to acquire the skills in adulthood. But for the majority it's a botch job, patching ourselves up internally with string and duct tape. We develop coping strategies to numb the pain through drink, drugs, eating, shopping; sometimes we turn it against ourselves in the form of disease (auto-immune disorders, ulcers, cancer); sometimes we discharge it against others, either verbally (rows), psychologically (emotional abuse) or physically (violence, rape). Sometimes it is too painful to bear, resulting in breakdown or suicide.

For cultural and biological reasons, women are generally taught to value emotions more than men, with the result that women tend to develop better self-management skills. They tend to discharge their pain in a slow, steady stream. Men tend to try to tough it out - and then explode (or implode).

sense it is overwhelming when you start thinking about these things. You can't "unsee" it, unfortunately.
All I would say is if individual men have abused you that is absolutely 100% on them and cannot be excused by male nature/biology. Not all men are like that, seriously and you don't have to accept it. Hope you are ok

Maybe if we lived in a world where emotions were viewed as a strength rather than a weakness, empathy might play a bigger part in all of our lives (fewer wars, fewer abuses, exploitation, etc).

Under patriarchy
Man = strength
Woman = weakness

Emotions and empathy = female and counter productive.

Maybe men rape because under patriarchy they are encouraged to be this way. Strong, unemotional, unaccountable and it's always her fault.

I've always believed that feminism helps women but a by-product in theory (because we don't live in a feminist world) is that feminism helps men too. But I've been flamed on MN saying that before haha.

I do not live the most feminist-approved lifestyle.
I do however have very personal feminist views and in my life try to help all the women I know in my line of work to get as much out of their choices as they can, to not take shit and to see the shit for what it really is. I help women by providing information and access that can expand their choices and increase their safety.

You can get bogged down in the overthinking but most people just get on with it! (Untill the revolution lol).

I'm surprised you were flamed for saying feminism benefits men too, Ophelia. I thought that was pretty well accepted on Mn. Even just taking the world of work, the fact that I didn't have to stop work on marriage (unlike my gran), that my job was there for me to return to after maternity leave, that both of is could work flexibly, that my salary was given equal weight in a mortgage application, that if we have another child, DH could take SPL etc, feminism has benefitted the men in my family.

Male entitlement. As a group men are socialised to have male entitlement (and women are socialised to respect that entitlement). Some/ many (depending on your pov) men have had experiences as children, teens, and/ or adults that result in them reflecting on and making it their business to resist and/ or challenge male entitlement. There are potent discourses around gender that sustain male entitlement; for example, the male sex drive is talked about as powerful and ever-present, which supports male entitlement.
The older I get the more I recognise that. I anticipate being an angry old woman.
A poster above said that while some say rape is about control the poster disagreed and said they thought it was sometimes about sex. It's both because it's sex he feels entitled to - whether it is taken by violent force or coercion or deception from a stranger, a friend, a relative, or a partner, it is male entitlement at work.

"I've always believed that feminism helps women but a by-product in theory (because we don't live in a feminist world) is that feminism helps men too. But I've been flamed on MN saying that before haha."

Presumably by men?

Buffy - some men have tried but generally get trashed both by the media and by - umm - most women. Fathers 4 Justice et al.

"Buffy - some men have tried but generally get trashed both by the media and by - umm - most women. Fathers 4 Justice et al."

Not sure Fathers4Justice are a particularly good example to use............

And F4J are precisely the sort to flame women for basically pointing out that men rape, that men are violent, and entitled.

In saying this I obviously hate men. (I don't actually, I hate the system).

Bertrand maybe not men afaik but certainly patriarch-compliant people (so may as well be men).

"the recognition that liberating women from gendered hierarchy will also liberate men, which will benefit a great many who are harmed by masculinity at the moment"
I've never quite believed this -- but maybe that is because it just feels to me like having to say 'Oh, but it will benefit you as well!' in order to try and get men to agree with it.

Men benefit from the patriarchy, and have to be willing to give that up. Else how are we to understand the thousands of years that the patriarchy has persisted and why it is so resistant to change?

Well, patriarchy is a system in which some men are very well off, quite a lot of men get to treat women like shit, while being subjected to male violence themselves.

Without patriarchy, little boys wouldn't be sexually abused, but adult men would have to do their own laundry.

If you compare it like that, you'd think men would be bonkers to not want to abolish patriarchy, but as in many unfair systems, everyone hopes he will come out on top - and of course, little boys might be against patriarchy, but by the time they have the power to abolish it, they benefit from it.

I am quite sure American capitalism only works because every poor guy hopes he will one day be a millionaire, and he won't want to have to pay taxes then. It is probably similar with patriarchy, except that it does have some privileges that all men enjoy.

A very interesting thread.
My views are more simplistic. I think that some men have a very high sex drive which takes little to arouse. Once aroused it can't be controlled and they need to be satisfied often.
It only takes a few words from a woman to turn them on.
I've talked about it with my husband several times - that's what he says, and it has been my experience too.
Their sex drive can be aroused by the excitement of war too - when a victim becomes a victor - as with the Russians in WW2 - they rape the women of the enemy.

WHAT PARTNER RAPISTS AND STRANGER RAPISTS SAY ABOUT WHY THEY RAPE: ( from an American website, sorry don't have actual source!)

• POWER: The partner rapist: ‘It gave me a certain feeling of power over her because I knew she found it unpleasurable. It was one of the only times I could best her "

The stranger rapist: "… At that time, it gave me a sense of power. A sense of accomplishing something that I felt I didn’t have the ability to get."

• ANGER/RETALIATION: The partner rapist: ‘‘I guess I was angry at her. It was a way of getting even "

The stranger rapist: "I met a girl at a party... she irritated me … I took her home to her apartment and I raped her.’"

• INSECURITY/SENSE OF INADEQUACY : The partner rapist: ‘‘… She was a stronger person than I was in many ways, and I bad an inferiority complex about it. "

The stranger rapist: "I raped about four chicks … they all had a certain self-assurance … it used to be threatening to me."

• SEXUALLY AROUSED BY CAUSING PAIN AND FEAR: The partner rapist: ‘‘I had the best erection I’d had in years. It was very stimulating. I walked around with a smile on my face for three days. You could say, I suppose, that I raped her."

The stranger rapist: Interviewer: "Did her fear turn you on? Rapist: "Yes" Interviewer: "How did you feel about her being hurt?" Rapist: "That was exciting."

• PREFERENCE FOR COERCIVE SEX OVER CONSENSUAL : The partner rapist: ‘‘I get this satisfaction from a feeling of some dominance – a man over woman thing."

The stranger rapist: "Making a girl wouldn’t do it … It was the unattainable I wanted."

• SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT : The partner rapist: ‘‘I have a right to this."

The stranger rapist: "You want this, and you don’t see why you can’t have it so you take it ."

Once aroused it can't be controlled and they need to be satisfied often.

sorry but that's bs. Oh is easily aroused (just by scratching my back,words or sometimes a look) . He's also what many would consider deprived in this area because of many reasons. Guess what? He can fucking control it! Hell he'll even try to hide just so i don't feel pressured or guilty. Unless your husband and the other men that think this way have sex anytime,anywhere with anyone then yes,they can fucking control it WHEN THEY WANT TO

^My views are more simplistic. I think that some men have a very high sex drive which takes little to arouse. Once aroused it can't be controlled and they need to be satisfied often.
It only takes a few words from a woman to turn them on.^

Thanks Senac for giving a really clear example of how the male sex drive discourse supports male entitlement and is the cause of rape and sexual violence. Men (and women) are fed this line about male sexuality from a young age. It's bullshit of course, but convenient bullshit nontheless.

No, my husband isn't like that , TG. But it's what he thinks about the few men who become rapists and abusers.
My ex was abusive.