Why do (some) men sexually abuse/rape?

[tryingtomakesenseoflife]

Can you help me understand why men sexually abuse. I've experienced a range from a pretty awful rape by a friend - to, in longterm marriage, a low level level of coercion and ignoring consent over certain small acts - and in years past experiences that fall in between like unwanted drunken sex.

This is just background to my post. I'm less concerned about addressing my individual circumstances, more in hearing thoughts about why men do this.

It seems to me like a lot of men to different degrees ignore or push the boundaries re consent. (Not all of course)

Are there explanations or understandings of this, including in a wider context, I don't know exactly what I'm asking. I just want to understand a bit more, like has this always been an issue throughout history? Was it understood differently? What is the link to gender roles? To biology? Are the different ends of the spectrum about the same thing?

I couldn't see another thread addressing this but happy to be directed.

[PreemptiveSalvageEngineer]

Vestal, thanks for the clarification (for current times anyway, but do you know how it was back in the 40s?). Hope I didn't cause offence.

What I was trying to say was, as Stars and Stripes is really only available to the military, I believe the article was not intended for the eponymous Frauleins, but for the GIs to feel less guilt about raping (or at least using) German women. Haven't read the article, but I'm sure it's be a propaganda cringe-fest.

[KindDogsTail]

I saw by chance, looking these things up that Anthony Burgess's wife was gang raped by four American deserting soldiers in the blackout in London, and miscarried her baby as a result. Clockwork Orange partly had this in mind apparently. She became an alcoholic who drank herself to death as a result of the rape.

I just watched a film about Vietnam soldiers giving their testaments.
One soldier said he was giving this testament because:
"i didn't like being an animal and I didn't like seeing others being turned into animals either...it's hurt a whole generation of Americans and Vietnamese & that's the whole atrocity."

One soldier said they were never told the Geneva Conventions before they went. Another said they were given the idea the people they were attacking weren't real people. Another said he had thought; "There is someone senior to me here & if this is not SOP (standard operating procedure) someone would stop it."

[SomeDyke]

In terms of violence against women in general, we have the recent double murder of Charlotte and Claire Hart, and this article by Laura Bates:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2016/jul/26/womans-murder-called-understandable-lance-hart

which explains how reporting that seeks to make the murderers actions 'understandable' (he murdered his wife because she wanted to/had left him), in effect blames her for leaving, whilst is more puzzled by the murder of the innocent bystander in this case (the 19 year-old daughter).

Except both these murders become 'understandable' if you recognise that the problem is men who view women as not-persons. Wives/daughters (even adults), and small children are responsibilities/property not independent persons.

They also had two adult sons. So even if you accept the murder of a wife who wants to leave as 'understandable', why then also murder the adult daughter? Unlike smaller children, you don't have the 'take them with me/shouldn't be left alone' excuse. Reports seem to indicate he shot the wife, then his daughter, then himself. If his daughter had been left alive, what harm could she have done? She couldn't exactly make things worse for his memory by letting her brothers know what he had done. The only explanation I can see that fits is that this shows that he viewed his wife and his daughter as not-persons/property, in a way very different to how he viewed his two adult sons.

And then, of course, we have the reporting of the community, which seems to consist of the usual, what a nice chap, we're all very shocked, he must have flipped/gone mad..............

If seemingly ordinary men can do this to their wives and daughters, is it really that surprising that seemingly ordinary men can also rape? All male violence......................

[tryingtomakesenseoflife]

It's thoroughly depressing. At least I understand a bit more now about why it feels so miserable.

[PreemptiveSalvageEngineer]

I read that article today, lunch-ish. I'm still spitting nails over it!!!

I hadn't even registered the "sons who didn't get murdered" part of it.

[FreshwaterSelkie]

Fucking hell, UNDERSTANDABLE? Like a family annihilation is just one of those things?!

If ever there was an illustration of the narrative being shaped around men, here it is - Nice Guy (TM), crazed with love for his wife and children, devastated at the thought of losing them, sort of accidentally murders them in completely unforeseeable and yet completely understandable manner that demonstrates just how much he loved them.

It's a different story if you write: after years of abuse, a woman and her daughter escape from a controlling and angry man. Driven to a murderous rage at the prospect of the loss of control of two of his possessions, he chooses to cold bloodedly murder them rather than allow this to happen, and then kills himself to escape justice.

If the second version makes you say "oh, steady on, jumping to conclusions a bit, aren't you?", then try thinking about why you believe the first one, and not the second, when the evidence tells us that the second is more plausible?

I hate hate HATE how they always wheel in a bunch of people who barely know the guy to tell us what a stand-up chap he was. I bet if you dig down a little deeper, it's a different story. And the women just get erased all over again in the service of whitewashing male violence. Despicable.

[PreemptiveSalvageEngineer]

If the second version makes you say "oh, steady on, jumping to conclusions a bit, aren't you?", then try thinking about why you believe the first one, and not the second, when the evidence tells us that the second is more plausible?

This. THIS! Perfect.

Of course, the answer is: because if people started thinking like that, men couldn't get away with - literally -murder.

[SailorBoyz]

Hello Ladies just my take on this topic mainly because my beloved was raped by a visiting German tutor at teacher training college. Well I’ve been a travelling engineer and mixed with some tough guys but appart from vulgarities from some not all I’ve not seen much abuse in my workplace. I feel it’s done by men in positions ( as they see it) of power and girls / women feel fearful of their job security and also in the case of my wife she was a young student with no previous boyfriends and did she think this was normal behaviour of men, well! it’s not mine and as far as I know my male close friends behaviour. I think it’s easy for some people to say speak out but when your young and naive it’s not easy. But to finish I love and respect my wife and three now grown up daughter’s and this man has never disrespected any lady/woman. Will the mindset change for some men well sadly I don’t but just remember gals not all men are like you know who.
Take care ladies

[Saz432]

I'm in a very similar situation to you OP - mutiple serious assaults and a rape by different men, plus child abuse too.

I used to buy into the rapist myth but as time has gone by I've started to understand why and how this is so prevalent - the men doing most of the assaulting have literally NO idea that's what they're doing. To them it's normal to push a woman's boundaries, ignore a no or a lack of enthusiasm as long as they get what they want. This attitude usually starts as a teenager and when they see how much they can get away with there's no reason for them to stop.

Was talking to my husband about this and he was quite stunned as he realised the true spectrum of abuse particularly when you include coercion. He told me that every sexual partner he's ever had has wanted to avoid specific activities because they'd "had a bad experience" previously and he's only just realising what that really means. Fortunately he's one man who's never tried to do things I don't want to do.

I think the thing that really opened my eyes to this was the Reddit "ask a rapist" thread. Now I understand that there aren't rapists and good guys, everyone is on that spectrum, I get really angry when I saw guys putting all this stuff at the door of predators rather than your average guy, who's responsible for almost all of these incidents. It will never change until this is understood

[Saz432]

Really? "Not all men"? Actually, to an extent it is all men, because that's what's normalised in our society.

I'm sure you've never raped anyone or explicitly continued with something despite them saying no. Maybe you've never catcalled a woman, told a strange woman to "smile" in the street, grabbed a bum in a club or tried to make a woman talk to you when she doesn't want to.

But I'll bet you've heard friends telling sexist jokes or comments, or bragging about what they've "gotten away with" in their latest relationship, and not pulled them up on it? I'll bet you've seen male colleagues acting inappropriately with female colleagues, whether that's making gross comments, speaking over them in meetings, mansplaining, taking credit for their ideas, and not done anything about it? I bet you have a mate that you know takes things a bit far but it's all harmless, right? Or when you were a teenager, you had mates who were coercing their girlfriends into sexual experiences and you didn't tell them to knock it off.

All of these things are part of the problem, they all contribute to this issue. I don't know many (or probably any) men who haven't at least been complicit in this culture. Having spoken to my husband he know when he's overstepped the mark or should have spoken up, especially as a younger man (and thank god I believe he's never actually assaulted anyone as I couldn't handle that at all). He's been completely non-defensive about the issue and about being informed that this is a problem that involves pretty much all men - the ones who get really defensive about this are the ones I know I cannot trust.

[spankhurst]

Because we live in a patriarchy and woman are 'the other'. Many men see non-men as lesser beings.

[SailorBoyz]

Saz432 sorry to say I haven’t done anything that is in your second para. I must have been such a goody two shoes but I wasn’t aware of that. As a teenager I had a lot of girl cousins and was taught to respect them and hand on heart appart from fun fights, chases, board games nothing remotely yucky ever happened. Teenager well I had one girlfriend my life was the sea, fish industry, hard work long days and no sexual experience until my beloved wife came along. But there again looking back I didn’t feel I was strange/out of the ordinary. Also on looking back both my parents were Christians (sorry for that word) they must have made more of an impression than I though at the time. I must be weird or am I?

[DJBaggySmalls]

SailorBoyz
When women talk about their experiences of sexual assault its not a good time to jump in and say 'not all men are like that' or announce you've never seen it or done it.
I dont know what you hope to achieve by it. We already know that. We are talking about 'men' as a biological class. If you havent raped anyone, then discussions about why men rape are obviously not talking about you personally.

Perhaps instead, you could consider how you would support your wife or daughter if she went through it?

[TammyswansonTwo]

SailorBoyz if you've genuinely never harassed or demeaned a woman or even witnessed it, then that's great. I'd say you're in the minority, but it's great nonetheless. In my limited experience of men, and the experiences of the women I've known, it is certainly most men even if it's not all, to some extent, more or less.

[SailorBoyz]

Baggy smalls I’ll finish now. But you don’t know how I supported my wife or the outcome of that rape.